Hammer Springs

[Carrots]

I have heard some folks say that using a 10lb hammer spring in a carry gun (or a gun that is not just for range/competition) is ill advised. Is that good advice? Also I have today been told that by using a 10lb spring I may have reliebability issues with non firing primers. This is all new to me, whats the story? Thanks

[SIGtrarian]

This is all new to me, whats the story? ThanksThe lighter the spring, the lighter the hammer strike, until it becomes too light. Not a mystery. How light is too light? Why gamble on your life? Use the factory standard spring weight (14 lb.) for SD/HD, save the light springs for the range.

[Carrots]

10-4, but if I keep them for the range only will they work just as well as the existing in both my USP9 & P30L?

[SIGtrarian]

10-4, but if I keep them for the range only will they work just as well as the existing in both my USP9 & P30L?Maybe, maybe not, only testing will tell. Even if they work 100% with the 10lb. spring at the range, no need to risk it for serious social situations. Also, the only advantage to using the lighter springs is when firing double action. In single action you can't feel any difference.

[Carrots]

Thank you very much, I'll try one next weekend.

[Rican Havoc]

The lighter the spring, the lighter the hammer strike, until it becomes too light. Not a mystery. How light is too light? Why gamble on your life? Use the factory standard spring weight (14 lb.) for SD/HD, save the light springs for the range.

While this is generally good advice, it is over-simplified, and repeated time after time. In reality, there are a few factors to consider and monitor when using reduced hammer springs:


How deep are the primer strikes?
Are there any issues with certain brands of ammo?
In what condition will the gun in question be called upon (DA, or SA with safety engaged)?
Has the gun in question been tested with the ammo that will be used for self-defense? To what extent?
Do you personally feel the gun is reliable with the intended ammo in the modified configuration?


Personally, I have relied on modified guns for self-defense as well as for CCW. In each of those cases, the gun in question has met my reliability requirements to my satisfaction, and I have had no hesitation on depending upon them in a time of dire need. The suppliers of these replacement springs will typically have a disclaimer, but if a particular config. suits one's needs and has proven to be reliable, I see no need to recommend against it. In most cases, these slight mods actually help the shooter obtain better accuracy, and in a world where we are held accountable for each round that exits the muzzle, this can be quite important. One needs to acknowledge the trade-offs and evaluate them before committing to these types of mods, but then again, the same can be said when choosing a particular manual of arms (or weapons system) in general.

It's actually pretty simple. If you wish to use either a stock or modified firearm for personal protection, make sure that it performs reliably with the ammo you will be using. The shooting world is not "black and white." There are 256 shades of gray in between.

[Carrots]

In single action you can't feel any difference.

So does this mean that if I were to carry condition 1 then these concerns are moot?


Rican, of course you are right. We need to decide for ourselves, and I'll try it next week on one of my range guns and then take my decision on the others from there. I'd prefer to carry DA but the 1st pull is not equalling a good shot presently and as I want to train as I will be carrying I thought that this may be worth exploration. The 1st shot needs to be the best after all, but of course I probably should just persevere with the existing srpings for now. I'll try it and we'll see, and I thank you for your comments.

[Forgetfull]

So does this mean that if I were to carry condition 1 then these concerns are moot?


Rican, of course you are right. We need to decide for ourselves, and I'll try it next week on one of my range guns and then take my decision on the others from there. I'd prefer to carry DA but the 1st pull is not equalling a good shot presently and as I want to train as I will be carrying I thought that this may be worth exploration. The 1st shot needs to be the best after all, but of course I probably should just persevere with the existing srpings for now. I'll try it and we'll see, and I thank you for your comments.

If you were to carry in condition on then it's a moot point. The only trigger pull that the 10lbs spring is in DA since in DA you are cocking the hammer as you pull the trigger.

In single action all you are doing is breaking the sear.
So if I were to switch the hammer springs out on your gun without you knowing and you never fired in DA or cycled the slide manually you'd never know.

[SIGtrarian]

While this is generally good advice, it is over-simplified, and repeated time after time. In reality, there are a few factors to consider and monitor when using reduced hammer springs:


How deep are the primer strikes?
Are there any issues with certain brands of ammo?
In what condition will the gun in question be called upon (DA, or SA with safety engaged)?
Has the gun in question been tested with the ammo that will be used for self-defense? To what extent?
Do you personally feel the gun is reliable with the intended ammo in the modified configuration?


Personally, I have relied on modified guns for self-defense as well as for CCW. In each of those cases, the gun in question has met my reliability requirements to my satisfaction, and I have had no hesitation on depending upon them in a time of dire need. The suppliers of these replacement springs will typically have a disclaimer, but if a particular config. suits one's needs and has proven to be reliable, I see no need to recommend against it. In most cases, these slight mods actually help the shooter obtain better accuracy, and in a world where we are held accountable for each round that exits the muzzle, this can be quite important. One needs to acknowledge the trade-offs and evaluate them before committing to these types of mods, but then again, the same can be said when choosing a particular manual of arms (or weapons system) in general.

It's actually pretty simple. If you wish to use either a stock or modified firearm for personal protection, make sure that it performs reliably with the ammo you will be using. The shooting world is not "black and white." There are 256 shades of gray in between.For me, it's not over simplified. I stay with the stock 14 lb. spring weight for serious use. I have all variant one USP's and prefer condition one, so I have no need to experiment, as fun as it may be to do so. Also, I recommend against it for serious use generally because a majority of people don't have the knowledge to know what to look for, or how to go about experimenting to decide what's too light and what is acceptable. After reading your post, you obviously do, but how many people do you know that have the wherewithal to go through this process of deciding what is acceptable and what isn't? Since it's better to err on the side of caution, and it's hard to judge what a persons' knowledge base is from a few sentences written on an internet forum, I usually advise using stock spring weights. With stock spring weights, there is only the process of testing the chosen self-defense round for function first and accuracy second. For range use only, though, I say have fun and test away.

[Carrots]

I have been using 10lb springs in all three of my guns now for a few weeks with no problems. They work A-OK and make the DA pull a LOT better.

[Mrs_Esterhouse]

HK has a "second strike" capability unlike striker-fired pistols namely Glock and the XD. So, worst case scenario - it doesn't fire - you just pull the trigger again and 99.99% chance it will fire.

Is there a 10lb spring for the p2000sk?

[Carrots]

If you wade through this thread I believe that folks have had success with the 2000.

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74038&highlight=hammer+spring

I have been using the standard USP wolf spring in my HK45, P30L & USP9 without modification. I don't have either a 2000 or an SK but chances are you would be fine, and if not $5 won't keep you up at night.

[AviatorDave]

HK has a "second strike" capability unlike striker-fired pistols namely Glock and the XD. So, worst case scenario - it doesn't fire - you just pull the trigger again and 99.99% chance it will fire.

Is there a 10lb spring for the p2000sk?

I just don't know about that 99.99% chance of it firing the second time. I've always been taught that if it doesn't fire the first time, chances are not good it will fire the second time either, and you should just tap and rack and get a new round in there.

But then again I wasn't using weakened hammer springs that have a higher probability of a light strike, so misfires are usually really duds. I usually try to restrike misfires at the range too, but it's by loading them first into an empty mag. They normally don't fire the second time around either.

[Big Bore]

I would like to know what gun is being used by those who teach that you should eject a round that doesn't fire instead of trying to light it up a second time. I bet it is taught by those who use Glocks and other pistols without repeat strike ability. In 40 years of shooting I have yet to get a truly dead centerfire round. Rimfire, I've had plenty, but not centerfire. Of the literally dozens and dozens of centerfire rounds I've had go click instead of boom, they all gave the satisfying "boom" on the second try. And I know I can pull the trigger a second time a whole lot faster than one can rack a slide and chamber another round, and those who preach rack and tap, what if you don't have your second hand available, you know, like it might be busy doing something else?

This is not saying that I advocate the use of the light hammer spring. I tried them and had strikes that were too light for my comfort. And the pay-off was not that great, certainly not great enough to outweigh the risk. Even though I had no misfires I went back to stock springs on my CCW. IMO leave the light springs for target work, but to each his own. It is certainly no skin off my nose if someone else's gun fails them at the worst possible time because they are running a light hammer spring.

[AviatorDave]

I would like to know what gun is being used by those who teach that you should eject a round that doesn't fire instead of trying to light it up a second time. I bet it is taught by those who use Glocks and other pistols without repeat strike ability. In 40 years of shooting I have yet to get a truly dead centerfire round. Rimfire, I've had plenty, but not centerfire. Of the literally dozens and dozens of centerfire rounds I've had go click instead of boom, they all gave the satisfying "boom" on the second try. And I know I can pull the trigger a second time a whole lot faster than one can rack a slide and chamber another round, and those who preach rack and tap, what if you don't have your second hand available, you know, like it might be busy doing something else?

This is not saying that I advocate the use of the light hammer spring. I tried them and had strikes that were too light for my comfort. And the pay-off was not that great, certainly not great enough to outweigh the risk. Even though I had no misfires I went back to stock springs on my CCW. IMO leave the light springs for target work, but to each his own. It is certainly no skin off my nose if someone else's gun fails them at the worst possible time because they are running a light hammer spring.

I must just be using a lot cheaper ammo than you are. :) I get at least one completely dead round per every 3 or 4 boxes of the Monarch crap I've been shooting. I've had some I'll hit 3 or 4 times before finally just tossing them in the garbage can.

But two things about the "training" I mentioned. First, while I have 3 decades of shooting experience, I have extremely limited formal training, especially from a tactical point of view. By extremely limited, I mean like literally only 6 or 8 training sessions. And yes, they were likely a lot more familiar with Glocks so you're probably right.

So I take it then that proper training dictates that with anything that has second strike capability, you do try to hit it a few times before manually cycling it?

[Mrs_Esterhouse]

If you wade through this thread I believe that folks have had success with the 2000.

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74038&highlight=hammer+spring

I have been using the standard USP wolf spring in my HK45, P30L & USP9 without modification. I don't have either a 2000 or an SK but chances are you would be fine, and if not $5 won't keep you up at night.

The problem with the p2000sk is the hammer spring is much shorter than the non-sk or USPc. I guess I would need to cut the spring to fit and therefore need to purchase a pull meter to determine when to stop cutting.

[orfeo]

One correction to the above info:

A lighter mainspring WILL affect single-action trigger pull favorably. . . just not nearly as much as it will affect double-action trigger pull. In double-action, you are cocking the hammer against the power of the mainspring with the action of your finger against the trigger, so you will feel it here first and foremost. In single-action, the mainspring is applying it's force to the cocked hammer against the sear. The harder the cocked hammer pushes against the sear, the less easy it is to slide the sear out from under it to release the hammer. :)

[bnz 41]

My suggestion is to split the difference between the stock 14# spring and the much lighter 10# spring. Wolff also offers a 12# spring for the USP. I use this in my usp 40 and while it still improves trigger pull dramatically, it does give a much larger margin of safety for igniting harder primers. I've shot it extensively with both factory loads and my reloads and have had nice uniform, deep primer strikes every time.

One other option is to use federal ammunition or federal primers if you have a 10# spring in. These are generally recognized as the softest primers readily available in the industry.

Good Shootin,

Bnz 41