Brass Floor Plates

[Big Bore]

I need your help here. A friend of mine is going to start producing solid hard brass floor plates for the USPC line of pistols, complete with HK and caliber markings. The question is, what shape is preferred by the rank and file.
Price is not set yet so I cannot comment on that or who is making them. But they are being made with HK's blessing by a very well known member of this board. I am NOT involved in the production or selling of these items, I just need your opinion.
Here are the factory options:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/BiggBore/Floor%20Plates/FactoryFlat.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/BiggBore/Floor%20Plates/FactoryExtended.jpg
This factory floor plate weighs 100.6 grains, about 1/5 ounce.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/BiggBore/OPS2%20floor%20plate/OPS2-1.jpg

Here are the solid hard brass floor plates.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/BiggBore/Floor%20Plates/BrassBlocked.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/BiggBore/Floor%20Plates/BrassContoured.jpg
The contoured brass floor plate weighs 1271 grains, about 3 ounces.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/BiggBore/OPS2%20floor%20plate/OPS2-2.jpg

The advantages of the brass floor plates are they ensure a speeded ejection of the magazine, even if they are prone to hanging up for what ever reason. The extra weight gets them out of the way in a hurry which has proven to aid in a rapid reload.
Second, even if the magazine is full and ejected on a relatively flat angle, the weighted floor plate caused the mag to land floor plate first, protecting the feed lips from damage.
After 30 drops from a height of 5 feet, empty, full, and half full, on concrete and 30 drops on large gravel, straight down, the magazine came through un-damaged and the floor plate only suffered cosmetic damage such as a few nicks and scratches. These are made from very hard brass and look pretty darned good too. I am not sure what the process is for making them black but it is pretty durable.
Here is a picture of the markings:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/BiggBore/OPS2%20floor%20plate/OPS2-6.jpg
Here is the floor plate after the above 60 drops:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/BiggBore/OPS2%20floor%20plate/OPS2-24.jpg

So, which style do YOU think you would like best, the squared off plate or the contoured plate?

[massocrat]

I like the contoured plate, myself. It adds a little to the grip length, but not enough and in a way to impeed CCW like the HK extended floorplate.

[BriansMojoDog]

Contoured for sure, looks more like an original factory part.

[jeep450]

I don't think the contoured one would be any harder CCW. It matches the frame better than the flat. How much different do they feel when holstered? Do they install like the O.E. floor plates do? The price would have to be right also, I don't think they would be very popular if they are to expensive.

[Scooter]

Just make sure you wear shoes when you practice doing dry fire mag changes. Weighted mag + toe = OUCH!

[Big Bore]

They make the mag heavier for certain, but I really cannot tell any change in balance when in the pistol nor are the three ounces noticeable over time. I have been carrying them with these floor plates on my pistol as well as on the back up mag for about three weeks and I do not see the extra six ounces to be of any concern. They certainly do make the mag drop out quicker and Scooter is absolutely correct, they hit the ground and they hit it hard. At first I expected the welds in the back of the mag to give up the ghost, but after those 60 drops on concrete and large gravel and another 50+ on carpet, the welds show no sign of being about to let loose. The carpet drops were testing to see if the weighted plates would always make the mag drop plate first so I was dropping the mags at all kinds of angles including almost sideways. The brass plates primary function was to make sure the mag is ejected quickly to aid in rapid reloads in tactical situations. Of course, speed in mag ejection can also come in handy during IPSC shooting too. The side benefit of making the mag drop bottom first so the feed lips do not get damaged was a serendipitous finding. And, they weigh so much that when the mags do hit the ground they do not bounce around. I tested some aluminum floor plates a while back and while those were excellent, they suffered more cosmetic damage and allowed the mags to bounce more. With the aluminum plates the mag body was scratched up a bit more (not enough to worry about) but sometimes the rounds in the mag tended to reverse themselves. I don't know how that happens but it did about half the time. With the brass floor plates no rounds reversed themselves nor were any ejected from the mag during impact, half full or completely full. Even after 30 drops on gravel there were only very minor scratches to the body. The mag tended to hit the ground and then just fall over, not bouncing or skittering about like factory mags do or the aluminum based mags did. The only thing that happened was with empty mags the spring tension was not enough to keep the floor plate from shifting forward about 1/8 inch, but the plates did not come off or cause the spring and follower to come out. If there were any bullets left in the mag as would be with a tactical reload, the floor plate lock kept the plate in place, and yes, they attach the same way as do the factory plates.
I am very impressed with these plates and regardless of cost, if your life depends on the mag dropping every single time no matter what; these are going to be worth it. These are being developed primarily with an eye toward the LE and military community where ejection of a spent mag is paramount and rapid reloading is of utmost importance. The fact that some may come our way is a fortunate for us side market.

[orfeo]

Definitely contoured, I even think it would be better still if it had a contour (underbite) toward the back of the grip too. Would look much more correct and pleasing to my eye. :)

[gunut45]

Contoured for sure!

[dcondiff]

countored, thats sexy

[LSP 972]

Contoured.

While I'm not sure these are really NEEDED, the concept has been well thought-out and executed. There's just enough overhang for the palm to clear the butt when speed-seating; the factory flat floor plate is hit-or-miss here. I keep a flat one in the gun, but all spares are extended.

So, while these may indeed be an answer in search of a question, they are very nicely-done answers...;)

[Dave_USPCLE]

I dont see any reason to even consider producing the blocked off version. It will not aid in concealing the pistol and the contoured version would seem to add a little bit extra weight...weight being the whole point of these plates. I would consider the contoured version to be the way to go for sure.

[Fireranger]

Contoured.

[gunut45]

The vote sure is close! :D

[Andrew_Dawson]

Im in for a couple of sets if hes gonna make em for the uspf45 40 and 9.

[F22_RaptoR]

definatly contoured... I'd get 5 if you'll make em for the .45 low capacity mags... If not, im up s*** creek without a paddle! Jk

(yeah, canada still has crappy rules... i guess its the 11th round that killes now)

[grouchy]

(yeah, canada still has crappy rules... i guess its the 11th round that killes now)

First round kills, it's just that you have a bag limit of 10. :)

Would these be legal for competition shooting? As in not violating the rules or spirit of the rules?

[DoubleTap007]

Another idea, sorry to jump in with it, but if these blocks could be made deeper to hold another round or 2.

[Big Bore]

Sorry but I cannot answer any questions about what they will be available for or if they will be made in any +X capacity because I do not know. Right now they are being tested for the Compact/P2K 9mm, .357 SIG, .40, (all the same plate) and the .45 Compact, full caps only. I do not know if they will be made for the USP or SOCOM but I sure hope so. I doubt they will be made for the neutered mags because of the dificulty in making such a locking piece out of hard brass, but I do not know that for certain.
As I stated, the primary reason for these plates is to aid ejection of the mag and speed up tactical reloads. Legality for sports is not something that has been looked in to so far as I know.
Price? Not a clue. Being CNC machined out of hard brass and with the price of hard brass these days they are not going to be cheap, but cheap is a very relative term. These plates are intended for hard duty use and to help keep the shooter alive, not display pieces. Price is tertiary to function and durability.

[Baldy]

Contoured looks better than blocked. If they become available, I would want a few for the USPc .45.
I know it was not one of the choices, but a finger rest model would be even better.

Thanks

[Fireranger]

Contoured looks better than blocked. If they become available, I would want a few for the USPc .45.
I know it was not one of the choices, but a finger rest model would be even better.

Thanks

A finger rest model without the pronounced lip would be nice for the P2000SK.

[z28smokin]

Contoured plate looks alot better.

[Miku]

I agree, contuored are better looking and probably better hand fitting. The blocked plate makes the relatively short handle even more short for large hands.

If they decide to make them ifor 9mm 15 rnd for fullsize USP, let me know :p

Miku

[david75]

Contoured...Very very nice

[Schulze]

Contoured, but a little more like the original lipped floorplates, if possible.

Also, stainless followers would be nice to purchase.

[Lone_Ranger]

Any chance of getting a hard rubber "bumper" that could fit into the HK factory floorplate to keep it from getting banged up, or self-destructing, during reloads.

[Big Bore]

Trust me, it may get banged up but it will not self destruct. So far as I know the maker is not in the rubber molding business. Remember, these are for real honest to God tactical use where looks over time are not the main concern, or even a very important one. Sure, he wants them too look good and his care in machining is evident, but looks after being dropped 60 times on gravel and concrete is not something that is very important, only function and durability matters.
Look at the pictures again, the one that is all banged up had been dropped 30 times from 5 feet on concrete, 10-full, 10-half full, and 10-empty, and also onto two-inch sized gravel, again dropped 30 times from 5 feet, 10-full, 10-empty, and 10-half full. I am surprised they did not suffer more damage and their weight assuring they hit mag plate first kept the mag body and feed lips from suffering any damage at all. The mag body got one little scratch on it hardly worth mentioning.

[orfeo]

Well, I think you definitely got the answer to your question. . . of the 2 choices, everyone prefers the contoured version! :)

If your friend would like some practical input as well, here's some of mine:
The contoured brass floorplate as shown would add the equivalent of four (4) 230 grain FMJ cartridges (at about 321 grains each) to the weight. . . while he's still in the R&D stage, would he consider making a flush-fitting floorplate as a more exact replacement for the factory flat floorplate? That would likely weigh at least 500 grains in itself, which might be plenty enough extra weight to accomplish the goal of positive mag drops, while staying flush with the grip, saving on brass supply, and maybe avoid unecessary extra weight and bulk? After he made a couple and tested them, you could submit them on here for feedback next to the contoured one and see what people wpould prefer. :)

[psg1]

I agree with orfeo. If possible, he should produce a few thinner, flush plates to see if they will produce the same result. As we all know gravity brings things towards the ground at the same rate, so really all that is needed is a little extra weight to help overcome the friction between the frame and mag. At a certain point, it wouldn't matter whether it's a 750g plate or a 2 liter bottle of soda that's attached to the mag.

USPs tend to give the empties enough of an extra kick to get them to drop free by themselves.

[HK Jack]

I guess the question comes down to how "tactical" everyone is. My guess is probably not too many. People baby these guns and accesories so a durable product only makes sense.

Many folks like to think that they will be abusing the gun but in actuality they won't. When was the last time people were on the ground, rolling around and scratching the HE finish.

It shouldn't be too difficult to protect the bottoms with some molded rubber. It just takes the desire to find the right solution for the right problem.

Interesting choice to make these for the compact and not the fullsize USP. Wouldn't it be more likely that people would be doing the "tactical" mag changes on a fullsize USP during competition?

Tell your gentleman to keep working on it and make a version with some grooves that would accept a molded rubber basepad that could be made by another manufacturer. That way the brass basepad is protected and a cheaper rubber basepad could be replaced as often as needed. Possibly even in various colors to help keep track of mag,ammo etc.

Good luck.

[RX7-2nr]

looks like a very nice product. im sure he'll be able to sell a bunch of them. id like to see a floorplate with a pinky extension, thatll fit full size USPs.

[Big Bore]

Be assured that all comments are being read by the maker of these plates. He is a member and contibutor to the boards and is not a stranger to any of us here. It is simply that at this time and since the product is not finalized yet, he is way to busy to start fielding a bunch of phone calls inquiring about this and that and something else. He has more pokes in the fire than just about anyone I know.
And, I am quite sure he does not want a bunch of butt kissing either. He wants honest feedback and will take all suggestions seriously. After all, while his primary target is the LE community I am fairly certain he will not mind taking our money also!

[Andrew_Dawson]

If you guys want em rubberized just take em to your local linex dealer (or linex type dealer) and have em shoot it next time hes spraying in a bedliner, they got colors too.

[Kost]

The steel mags drop plenty fast enough. The polymer mags would benefit tho. Rubberized seems like a worthwhile investment since is would save the brass from damage. Offer them in both 'blue' or rubber coated.

I vote for Contoured ones with rubber coating.

[Special K]

Contoured, but a little more like the original lipped floorplates, if possible.

Also, stainless followers would be nice to purchase.

I agree, something like the factory extended would be awesome, but I'm sure harder to make and alot heavier... perhaps too heavy. I'm kinda more form over function though(yeah, I know thats stupid). Just throwing my opinion out there.

It looks like it's going to be a great product no matter how it comes out.

[svddragunov]

I'm pretty sure I would buy 2 or 3 contoured ones for a USPc .45 for carrying, depending on price.

[LSP 972]

I doubt I would purchase any of these brass floor plates; but I'd be VERY interested in stainless followers.

Seems to me this would be the best place to add weight while improving (or at least extending) function.

.

[Big Bore]

bump

[Handy]

Like the contour.


Big Bore, why expensive brass? Why not polymer with a cast in piece of iron plate? Or even aluminum with a chunk of iron (or even lead) recessed between the spring plate and the base pad. Aluminum base plates should be just as tough as brass and could be weighted differently depending on filler material (or left empty as tough but light base plate alternatives).

It just sounds like brass is going to be a pain to source and make, and that will equal lower sales potential. If you use a blend of easier to shape and heavy ingots you'll get the same result with less expense.

[Big Bore]

Handy, I have nothing to do with the making, design, or anything like that. I have been testing the plates for the gentleman who is making them and of course, posted this poll because he would like honest input. I do not know if he has considered other options to brass (although if I was a betting man I would bet he has) but I do know he is machining these from hard brass, not casting and I don't think he is set up for any kind of plastic molding, and getting a mold made is incredibly expensive. So, it could be that it is less expensive in the long run to machine from a solid product than to make several different pieces that have to be machined, bonded,...honestly, hard saying not really knowing.
What I can say for certain is that the hard brass is much more durable than aluminum. I tested some aluminum bass plates almost two years ago and they suffered more cosmetic damage than do the brass plates under the same test. Even the hard aluminum is apparantely softer than the hard brass being used even though the brass is falling with more energy. Also, more cosmetic damage to the magazine body occurred with the lighter aluminum plates because the mags bounced around more on the ground. It seems the heavier brass plates stick the mag to the ground instead of bouncing.

[Handy]

Okay. It just seemed like Beretta base plates do just fine. Weighted they wouldn't bounce any more than the brass.

But like you said - not your project.


Any idea why he isn't using steel? I don't know how difficult "hard brass" is to machine, but annealed mild steel isn't terrible.

[Big Bore]

No idea. Isn't brass heavier than steel per cubic centimeter?

Good news, I just got an e-mail from the gentleman making these plates and he corrected something I had mis-spoke on. He IS, I repeat IS making the plates for the FULL SIZE 9mm and .40, but not for the .45 or SOCOM at this time.

edited to add:
I just got another e-mail from the gentleman making these plates and he said it was ok to pass this information on:

.5” x 1.00” x 144.” Bar stock weights

Al 7075 7.28lbs

Ti grd 2 11.74lbs

St 1018 20.00lbs

SS 304 21.03lbs

Brass 22.13lbs



Brass is heavier than common steels, the problem is that if the coating is scratched then you would have rust, not the case with brass. The fact is that brass actually machines very well with the right approach with regards to how you do it. The weights are machined in 2 operations top and bottom, there is a fair amount of hands on after that (blending tool marks ect) and then blasting them with aluminum oxide. After that each part is inspected before it gets packaged for coating. I’m not set up for injection molding but you can very aggressively machine plastics such as Delrin. Delrin and the other black plastics are fairly expensive, you buy them in sheets or bar stock. Still 2 ops, slightly quicker cycle times on the machine with less de-burring but won’t speed mag exchanges. You could place a “blank” of steel between the plate and body but upon impact they would separate and probably fly apart. You could epoxy them together, another step but most epoxies are not designed to undergo the rigors of impacts. The idea will always be (in my book) to get the mag out of the way ASAP.

[jeep450]

Any new info on these Big Bore?

[deadboy]

Just found this, the contoured mag plates seem to be the way to go.

I would be interested in some for my future carry and my current USP 9mm.

And mags that hold a few extra rounds would be AWESOME.

[avery]

Contoured is the way to go for me, I personaly think it is a great idea.

[Powder Burns]

definitely contoured, and as 2nd model make one with the finger extension, my hands aren't that big but it helps with a 2 hand grip.

[Big Bore]

Recently I corresponded with the maker and they do have some in stock but supply is limited. The price tossed around is $22 and IMO that is a fair price since those crappy factory base plates are about $8 each. The factory plates do the job but not with the certainty and durability of these plates.
I am sure that when he gets enough in stock and is ready to go into full sales he will post on the HK items for sale board. With SHOT and everything else that has been going on I feel certain that he has had his plate pretty full.

[jgoodfella1]

Contoured

[drankin]

Factory Extended

[sig220hk45]

I came across this post and was wondering what came of this project.

[Big Bore]

I do not think he ever sold enough to make it worthwhile to continue which is too bad. I really like mine and would like to get 7 more if at all possible. I have not heard from Marc for quite some time and even heard he was getting out of HK parts in favor of FN parts. I do NOT know if there is any truth to that or not.
The best thing to do is give him a call and ask him. He does not answer e-mails too promptly lately because of his work load not allowing him time to do so and he has not posted here in ages, so the best bet would be to call him and speak to him or his wife in person. Good luck and let us know what you find out.