And so it begins: 9mm USC to 16" UMP Conversion and links to ALL UMP Conversion Info!

[GTPprix]

Well I *think* I’m the first person to undertake this particular conversion although I believe others have already done the 9mm UMP conversion with the 8” Barrel (feel free to chime in here guys! :)).

My main purpose here is to actually create a place with ALL the links and other information needed to complete a DIY USC to UMP conversion of any caliber.

First let me say this article is in NO way to say that you should not use any of the vendors that offer this conversion, rather than simply a place to find links and other pertinent info for those of us who really enjoy cutting up a brand new gun :D

Links to Machining Information for Conversion:
A VERY Basic Guide, read this first to get an idea of what needs to be done:http://tradecraft.us/Firearms/HowToUMP/HowToUMP.htm

A VERY DETAILED Guide, read this when you have your parts and are ready for specs!
http://home.comcast.net/~UMPlower/

UMP Foregrip Vent Location:
http://myweb.cableone.net/jsheffi31/Slots.htm

UMP Mag Well Template
http://hkpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1743&stc=1&d=1188954110

UMP/USC Parts Comparisons (See Gallery)
www.tacticalexcellence.com

NFA Information that may be helpful when doing conversions:
http://www.top-notchparts.com/atf_nfa_letters.htm

Links to Suppliers for Conversion Parts (The ones I personally used)
Adam Webber HK4Evr www.hkparts.net
Ed HDPS www.hdps.org
Top Notch Parts www.top-notchparts.com
Other Suppliers of Note:
Gordon Miller - www.hkspecialist.net
Phil Flack - pfcustomguns@bellsouth.net
Clyde Armory - www.policeguns.com

Now that I’ve got the basics out of the way I’m going to document what’s needed to do this conversion AND change calibers. I couldn’t find a lot of the information I needed easily such as how much I needed to change the bolt, 16” barrel suppliers ect. Let me start off by saying that while the regular 45ACP UMP conversion is actually very reasonable if you buy parts from the suppliers listed above, changing calibers can be VERY EXPENSIVE; you have been warned :D

Caliber Specific Conversion Parts:
Bolt Assembly
Barrell
Magazines
I bought all of the above parts (and parts for all my other guns) from Adam Webber (www.hkparts.net) and I can’t say enough about him and his service; amazing! Now before you go and call/email/homing pigeon ect Adam, he doesn’t have any more 9mm parts but does have plenty of 45 and I believe even some 40 parts. I will warn you that in my experience the 9mm parts may as well be made from un-obtainium as I had a HELL of a time finding ANYTHING in 9mm.

By now you are asking "Why the hell would he want 9mm?" Well the answer is relatively simple; I like 9mm :) All of my other guns (with the exception of the AR) are 9mm.

I was able to find ONE supplier that made a handful of 16” .40/9mm barrels and that was Top Notch. According to the gentleman I spoke to when I ordered he believed I was the first to buy one of the 16” units but still had a few left. I also bought an 8” HK barrel from Adam on the odd chance that someday Michigan will allow SBR (HA!).

The Parts:
HK 8” UMP 9mm Barrel, 9mm Magazine, 9mm Bolt Group (.45/.40/9mm all use the same recoil rod BTW) and some extra barrel pins.
http://hkpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1715&stc=1&d=1188492257


Now that I’ve got these parts I’ll start to document what you need to do to the bolt to assemble this thing as well as updating this when my 16” Barrel arrives and how the gunfunctions/looks ect. I hope this post will help some people not have to search for hours to find information like I did!

[BigFreddie]

Very cool...

Do you want this to be all encompassing for the USC to UMP conversion?

Here are a couple other part suppliers to add to the list of good guys to deal with:

Gordon Miller - www.hkspecialist.net
Phil Flack - pfcustomguns@bellsouth.net
Clyde Armory - www.policeguns.com

I also had Jeff Smith at Tactical Excellence modify my .40 SW bolt to work in my UMP. His site is worth referencing for a comparison of the USC, UMP9 UMP40, and UMP45 bolts. He also has some great pictures of the older and newer UMP lower differences.

BF

[kdogg]

Now that I’ve got these parts

I hate you. I want a 9mm UMP :(

I'd even settle for an MP5 style 9mm clone.

On a side note, the AG has put together a two panels of experts (term used VERY loosely), one to report all the positive aspects of allowing suppressors and SBR's in Michigan. Then also a panel to report what negative affects it would have.

When they finish, years from now, he will use that to help make is decision.

Personally, I can't think of too much negative. It's just a waiting game now.

[GTPprix]

Ah your right I almost forgot about the Tactical Excellence site! I'm going to add those right now; thanks!

[GTPprix]

I hate you. I want a 9mm UMP :(

I'd even settle for an MP5 style 9mm clone.

On a side note, the AG has put together a two panels of experts (term used VERY loosely), one to report all the positive aspects of allowing suppressors and SBR's in Michigan. Then also a panel to report what negative affects it would have.

When they finish, years from now, he will use that to help make is decision.

Personally, I can't think of too much negative. It's just a waiting game now.

Yeah no kidding, I'm sure people that are going to take the time and register/pay the tax arent the people we have to worry about. The criminals will do it anyway so why not let the law abiding citizens do it?

[AGG]

Wow, great job GTPprix!!! Can you say, "STICKY"? ;)

[kdogg]

I can't wait to see how this project turns out. I'm half tempted to shell out the money if I can find the parts.

[GTPprix]

I can't wait to see how this project turns out. I'm half tempted to shell out the money if I can find the parts.

Heh trust me if you actually find the parts you'll be so psyched that the money wont matter LOL

[GTPprix]

Ok well here are the results of the bolt comparison (with pics of course :))

USC 45ACP Bolt 9mm UMP Bolt
Overall Height: 1.945" 1.945"
Logo Side Height:1.045" 1.042"
Pin Side (Opp): .487" .525"

Just by trying to insert the bolt into the USC it was plain to see where the issue was but it never hurts to double check :) Rounding the USC pin side measurement measurement up to .490 that means we have to take ~ .035" off the 9mm bolt to make it fit the USC. Now obviously if you are doing this yourself go right ahead but for measurement variance I recommend giving your machine shop BOTH bolts (remove the firing pin/retaining pin first) so they can simply match the 9mm bolt to the 45 so there are no issues.

The area where the material needs to be removed is inside the red rectangle :)

[GTPprix]

Well after deliberating and talking to a few machine shops (that really didnt want to touch it lol) I'm sending my bolt to Ed at HDPS to be machined. As soon as it comes back I'll update this post, I'm still waiting on the final piece anyhow; the barrel.

[GTPprix]

That'll teach me to update a thread before I check to see if new parts have arrived! I recieved my 16" 9mm Top-Notch Barrel about an hour ago and I must say I'm pretty impressed. It looks to be very high quality and the price was incredibly reasonable. I'll be grabbing the digital calipers in a few to compare it to the HK 9mm 8" Barrel just to make sure I'm not going to have any issues :)

Here are some pics of the Barrel:
Top is HK 9mm 8"
Center is TN 9mm 16"
Bottom is HK 45ACP 16"

[GTPprix]

Ok checked the TN barrel all measurements were within .005" of the 8" HK barrel so it should be good to go. EDIT: The Chamber at the front was actually very out of spec, TN is going to fix this for myslef and anyone else needing one .

One thing I did notice was that the HK Barrell had flutes, the TN unit did not. I dont think this will make a huge difference but we'll see!

For those of you who like gratuitous parts pics here are some parts that are being used in this little operation:
Shown here top to bottom is:
UMP 9mm Recoil Spring/Firing Pin/Spring
USC 45 Bolt/Recoil Spring
HK UMP Front Accessory Rails
UMP 9mm Barrel
TN 9mm Barrel
HK UMP Optics rail
USC Reciever
HDPS Stock Block "B" With HK UMP Stock
UMP 9mm 30Rnd Mag
UMP 45ACP 25 Rnd Mag
USC Lower with 10 rnd mag
USC Stock/Grip

Not shown:
9mm Bolt
UMP 0,1,F Lower

[kdogg]

I'm sure keeping an eye on this. I want to hear how it turns out.

I'm high interested in a 9mm USC/UMP conversion. I've asked about everyone I know in law enforcement to try and help me track down this bolt.

[GTPprix]

I'm sure keeping an eye on this. I want to hear how it turns out.

I'm high interested in a 9mm USC/UMP conversion. I've asked about everyone I know in law enforcement to try and help me track down this bolt.


Ha you and me both, the waiting is the hardest part really..

[GTPprix]

Welp its done! (Almost ;))

Last night we machined my upper reciever and lower grip to fit and function together and I couldnt be happier! We did all the UMP style machining EXCEPT the side vents as we didnt have time to write the CNC program for that process (12:30am comes quick around here). I will of course post pictures of the gun and mods when I get home. I figured I'd share some of my notes that may make this process easier for anyone attempting this on thier own.

Bolt Machining- Since this is a hardened part and is VERY expensive (at least for my 9mm bolt hehe) I HIGHLY recommend shipping it to Ed at HDPS. His price is very reasonable (I believe ~$85) his process is PERFECT as no heat is transferred to the bolt during machining and his service is EXCEPTIONAL (I think Ed and Adam Webber have the same customer service playbook; they rule!) When I Got my bolt back it measured EXACTLY .487 on the pin side just like the stock bolt.

Lower Machining - This was actually the trickiest part, opening up the clips to 7mm is no easy task, if you dont have the tools I recommend sending this to Ed as well. Dont forget to remove the rear "nib" that holds the UMP rear buffer plate on as well or your stock block will be a PITA to make fit.

Upper/Mag Well Machining - This was probably the easiest part, using the template above will result in a perfect fit for all magazines if followed to the letter. We deviated a bit on the curvatures a bit and while the 45 Mags still fit perfectly I did have to hand file a smidgen to make the 9mm Mags fit.

Barrel Pin- While getting the barrel pin out the first time was cake, getting it back in (at least for me) was a little bit of a pain. I'm going to machine the upper to accept the TN quick change barrel pin, honestly I think this is going to be a MUST for those of you who have multiple caliber setups like this; it's SOOOO much easier!

I'll post up any other info I remember between now and when I post pics but those are the highlights. I hope this helps someone out!

[JCook]

Congrats on finding the parts and going through with the 9mm UMP build. I refuse to pay $1500+ for one bolt assembly, otherwise I would have done one a long time ago. I wish someone like Ed or TN would step up to the plate and make a few bolts for us instead of having to get bent over by the parts dealers.

Thanks,
James

[BigFreddie]

Welp its done! (Almost ;))

Barrel Pin- While getting the barrel pin out the first time was cake, getting it back in (at least for me) was a little bit of a pain. I'm going to machine the upper to accept the TN quick change barrel pin, honestly I think this is going to be a MUST for those of you who have multiple caliber setups like this; it's SOOOO much easier!



Can you expand on what machining you're doing to the upper? I too have decided that there must be a better way to swap barrels than using a hammer and punch. I wish someone would make a threaded pin with a sling loop on one end. That would give you something to pull on to get the pin out because it will have to be tight to maintain tolerances...

BF

[GTPprix]

Yeah threaded would be nice ;) You just have to enlarge the plastic part of the barrel pin hole to fit the head of the new pin, no biggie.

[GTPprix]

Good News:
Everything we machined/altered works flawlessly!

Bad News:
The TN Barrel is out of spec.

Well I FINALLY got a chance to shoot this thing today and man was a I geeked! First few shots felt great then I thought my mind was playing tricks on me as I could swear I was feeling significant differences in recoil between shots. My mind wasnt playing tricks after all, the next shot did what you'll see below and then a few more rounds and then the same thing. This was on hot Fiocchi 115GR FMJ ammo.

Then I switched to some less powerful 147GR Hornady rounds and it made it about 2 rounds out of 25 and the spent casing just lodged in the barrel. So after trying my damndest to pull the charging lever back and unlock the extractor (man these suckers are tight! :)) I had to grab a cleaning kit rod and pound it out, that was the end of the trip. Needless to say I should have checked the barrel more! :)

When I was assembling the gun for the first time, I used my snap caps for cycle testing EVERY round would get lodged in the barrel and have to be forced out with a rod. Now normally I would have stopped right there but I attributed this to being a fresh "tight" chamber and my snap caps being pretty beat up. I hand cycled a few rounds of Fiocchi and it fed/ejected properly so I figured I was golden; obviously I was wrong.

When I got home I put a snap cap in with my fingers and put the barrel vertical and it just stayed there. Then I tried the same thing with the HK Barrel and they fell out every time so the barrel is definately the problem.

I'll be calling TN tomorrow to see what they can do for me, in the mean time I'm going to continue my quest of begging Ed at HDPS to make me a fake can for my 8" HK Barrel so I can enjoy the polygonal and flute setup :D

When the gun DID function it was a tack driver, at 40 yds not even really trying (just trying to cycle check) I had a group about 1.5" round.

Overall other than the Barrel I'm very happy and I am definately looking forward to getting this fixed. I have a bunch more info/pics to post but I'll post when its done and 100% functioning.

[GTPprix]

I talked to Wade at TN today and he was great on the phone as usual, I'm going to ship him back my barrel and hes going to take care of it for me :) Great service, I can't wait to get this thing back up and running.

On another note, I converted the Gun to .45 yesterday morning and took it to the range and man is that thing fun! As soon as this is all over I'll post up the final details/pics ect thanks for your patience!

[BigFreddie]

Does the TN barrel have flutes in the chamber like the real HK barrels do?

I'm off to shoot a friend's UMP40 tomorrow! I can't wait!

BF

[GTPprix]

Does the TN barrel have flutes in the chamber like the real HK barrels do?

I'm off to shoot a friend's UMP40 tomorrow! I can't wait!

BF

No it doesnt, nor does it have the polygonal rifleing. When it did chamber a round it shot very well! For $225 you cant go wrong though :)

[kdogg]

I know this thread started as a 9mm conversion thread but it would appear its got a bunch of general USC to UMP conversion info too.

Here is an alternative for all you guys bitching about having to buy an expensive barrel as your 3rd 922r compliance part when you have a perfectly good HK factory 16 inch barrel.

Fresh of the CNC machines, the new HDPS US Made Steel Trigger.

http://intrastar.net/~kdogg/guns/hk_uscump/hdps_us_trigger.jpg

No comment on pricing as its not officially listed for sale on HDPS.org yet. I was lucky enough to get my hands on one of the first production runs. Just came in the mail overnight Express. Keep an eye on HDPS.org or contact Ed for more info and pricing.

[Landpimp]

AFAIK, genuine USC/UMP barrels are not flutted like a MP5....but I might be wrong


Does the TN barrel have flutes in the chamber like the real HK barrels do?

I'm off to shoot a friend's UMP40 tomorrow! I can't wait!

BF

[GTPprix]

AFAIK, genuine USC/UMP barrels are not flutted like a MP5....but I might be wrong

I dont think the 40/45's are but the HK 8" 9mm barrel is fluted :)

[BigFreddie]

AFAIK, genuine USC/UMP barrels are not flutted like a MP5....but I might be wrong

I think you are wrong on this one. My neighbor has an issued UMP40 and it has flutes and the same with my UMP40 barrel. The brass looks just like MP5 brass after firing. It might be something else putting the marks on the brass but flutes seem to be a likely cause...

BF

[GTPprix]

I talked to Wade at TN yesterday and he agreed the chamber was off, so hes going to send it back to his manufacturer and have them re-ream it and make it functional. This will likely take at least a week so I'm sitting here waiting again lol In the mean time I'm going to build a G36 clone though ;)

[Jeff Smith]

With all the talk about 9mm USC conversions, I thought I would post a photo of one I have been working on.

http://www.tacticalexcellence.com/images/usc9mmbetas.jpg

[Mitzelj]

GTPprix-
Hows the 9mm conversion coming?? Did you get the barrel back? Jeff

[GTPprix]

Ha! Nope... over a month.. I'm PRAYING that HDPS gets thier fake cans done for the UMP 8" Barrels so I Can use the HK one I have. I'm doing a G36 conversion on the mean time to keep me busy. What a PITA, I wish we could SBR in this state!

[Mitzelj]

Ha! Nope... over a month.. I'm PRAYING that HDPS gets thier fake cans done for the UMP 8" Barrels so I Can use the HK one I have. I'm doing a G36 conversion on the mean time to keep me busy. What a PITA, I wish we could SBR in this state!

I hear ya, I'd love an SBR. I hadn't thought of using a pinned suppressor. Hmmmmm. So how is the recoil on the 9mm UMP say compared to a roller locked gun? Jeff

[GTPprix]

I hear ya, I'd love an SBR. I hadn't thought of using a pinned suppressor. Hmmmmm. So how is the recoil on the 9mm UMP say compared to a roller locked gun? Jeff

Honestly I dont think I can fairly compare YET since the shells had a hell of a time getting out of the chamber. I'm sure that reduced recoil a bit hehe :D When I "think" it shot well it seemed to be in line with my clones.

[GTPprix]

5 Months later.. still NO replacement barrel from TN... Not a happy camper to say the least.

[ilovehk]

5 Months later.. still NO replacement barrel from TN... Not a happy camper to say the least.

GTP...how's the conversion going? I was checking out your post and you are getting me really, REALLY interested in one myself. I have been doing a lot of research and it looks like it will cost big$$$$. So, if you don't mind, what was the damage in $$$. Was it tough to get parts? I was thinking of 9mm or 40 SW, but the available of parts will be the deciding factor. I have unlimited 9mm or 40SW ammo from the job, that's why I want 9mm or the .40SW route. Thanks.

[wolf515]

Ok well here are the results of the bolt comparison (with pics of course :))

USC 45ACP Bolt 9mm UMP Bolt
Overall Height: 1.945" 1.945"
Logo Side Height:1.045" 1.042"
Pin Side (Opp): .487" .525"

Just by trying to insert the bolt into the USC it was plain to see where the issue was but it never hurts to double check :) Rounding the USC pin side measurement measurement up to .490 that means we have to take ~ .035" off the 9mm bolt to make it fit the USC. Now obviously if you are doing this yourself go right ahead but for measurement variance I recommend giving your machine shop BOTH bolts (remove the firing pin/retaining pin first) so they can simply match the 9mm bolt to the 45 so there are no issues.

The area where the material needs to be removed is inside the red rectangle :)

On here I see that you had to get the 9mm bolt machined to fit in the usc receiver. Does the .40 S&W bolt have to be machined? I am trying to get as much info as possible. I want to get a USC and do the UMP conversion but want to make sure there are no little surprises before i get any parts together.

[GTPprix]

On here I see that you had to get the 9mm bolt machined to fit in the usc receiver. Does the .40 S&W bolt have to be machined? I am trying to get as much info as possible. I want to get a USC and do the UMP conversion but want to make sure there are no little surprises before i get any parts together.

Any of the UMP bolts need to be machined to fit into the USC, Machining them also removes the trip for the sear removing another possible hiccup for the ATF :) As far as the damage in $$$ in concerned I think i've got about $5K in that gun or so.

[Jeff Smith]

Machining them also removes the trip for the sear removing another possible hiccup for the ATF.

Actually, the trip is the pin that retains the firing pin assembly.

http://www.tacticalexcellence.com/images/UMPreceivercutm.jpg

[GTPprix]

Actually, the trip is the pin that retains the firing pin assembly.

http://www.tacticalexcellence.com/images/UMPreceivercutm.jpg

Neeeeeeeeevermind I'm an idiot, I had the G36 and UMP bolts confused in my head LOL sorry for anyone that had to read that heheh

[armysoldier209]

Im just curious. I just bought the USC 45 carbine and the UMP conversion kit. I know some places fill in the hole for the sear block in the UMP lower to prevent being able to make it full auto. Im just curious why they do this because from what I understand you have to cut some of the plastic from the upper receiver on the USC in order for the sear to catch the trip anyways. Im just curious if im getting screwed by paying an extra $30 bucks to have them fill it in if its not going to work with that part on the upper being cut??


Thanks

[Jeff Smith]

It's for piece of mind and liability reasons for the one doing the conversions as a business. Without the block, you could put all the UMP fire control parts back in place, and then do the illegal mod to the upper receiver with nothing more then a red hot butter knife. Then you would have an illegal machinegun. About 15 minuets of work if you take your time.
With the block in place you would need to obtain another lower and do all the mods to fit the USC plus the illegal upper receiver mods. If a person who does conversions for customers found himself in court, he can show that he took extra precautions to keep this illegal mod from being done. By you needing another lower, it shows you bought parts beyond what was needed to do the basic conversion rather then just being able to modify the converted rifle you have and install fire control parts that were already included with parts you had to buy for the basic conversion. You went that extra mile to make an illegal weapon so more guilt is on you.

[JCook]

Jeff, I sent you a PM a few minutes ago. Please take a look when you get a chance.

Thanks,
James

[armysoldier209]

Oh ok. Thanks for the response. That makes alot of sense. I just wanted to make sure i wasnt getting ripped off. Now that you've explained it, it is a good idea. Not only does it keep the guy doing the conversion from being liable, but if ATF ever came to check and I was to show them the block, it should keep me out of trouble. Im still waiting on my USC though. Im starting to get impatient. lol

[JCook]

Taking my Mall Ninja special to the range tomorrow to try it out. More pics and info later :)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/jcook119/DSC00996.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/jcook119/DSC00995.jpg

Thanks,
James

[Americanhandgunner01]

Awesome, seems like a cool project!

[GTPprix]

Sweet! Looks like you snagged one of Adams bolts and some mags eh? I just got my 5 other mags in today (thanks Adam) now if I could only get my !@#%#% Barrel, yes its been what 7 months now? I cant even get a straight answer out of anyone I was supposed to have it this time LAST week but of course Top Notch doesnt have any real business hours.

[JCook]

Yes, I got the bolt from Adam. It was like finding the Holy Grail :) As for the barrel, I've been sitting on it for almost 2 years. Which is a lucky thing I had since the TN 9mm barrels appear to be defective. I went out to the Top Notch site earlier this evening and the only barrels I see offered are 45 ACP. I did not see any references to 40 or 9mm.

Have you tried posting on TB's board? He usually answers posts from folks with problems, maybe he can get this back in front of Wade. I'd like to see them fix these barrels, because I was thinking about buying one and having it cut down and 3-lugged for my Gemtech Raptor.

In any case, I hope you get the issue resolved. Meantime, have you tried your factory barrel? Does the conversion work OK with it?

Thanks
James

[GTPprix]

Yes, I got the bolt from Adam. It was like finding the Holy Grail :) As for the barrel, I've been sitting on it for almost 2 years. Which is a lucky thing I had since the TN 9mm barrels appear to be defective. I went out to the Top Notch site earlier this evening and the only barrels I see offered are 45 ACP. I did not see any references to 40 or 9mm.

Have you tried posting on TB's board? He usually answers posts from folks with problems, maybe he can get this back in front of Wade. I'd like to see them fix these barrels, because I was thinking about buying one and having it cut down and 3-lugged for my Gemtech Raptor.

In any case, I hope you get the issue resolved. Meantime, have you tried your factory barrel? Does the conversion work OK with it?

Thanks
James

I cant try my factory barrel we are in a non SBR state :( Otherwise I'd be all set lol, I dont know what to do about this thing its driving me nuts i've tried to be patient but man I'm SERIOUSLY running out of it. That and you cant even leave a voicemail for TN REALLY irks me..

[JCook]

I got through to TN today and ordered one of the 16" 9mm barrels. GTPprix, give them a call tomorrow or Wednesday. From what Todd said on his board, and what the lady at TN said today, they are getting a new batch of the barrels late this week. Maybe one of the new barrels will fix your issue. Start calling them tomorrow and see if you can find out what's up. Meanwhile, I'll let you know once mine comes in and I have a chance to test it.

Thanks,
James

[GTPprix]

I got through to TN today and ordered one of the 16" 9mm barrels. GTPprix, give them a call tomorrow or Wednesday. From what Todd said on his board, and what the lady at TN said today, they are getting a new batch of the barrels late this week. Maybe one of the new barrels will fix your issue. Start calling them tomorrow and see if you can find out what's up. Meanwhile, I'll let you know once mine comes in and I have a chance to test it.

Thanks,
James

Thats what I've been hearing for weeks :(

[GTPprix]

Dear God it LIVES!! Now with Flutes no less LOL :D

http://hkpro.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2522&stc=1&d=1207683598

[GTPprix]

EdIt: This one actually works!

[ilovehk]

Spoke to soon, this one doesnt work either !@$!@%#%!#%#%#%% Its worse than the first one!

Now we know where NOT to get it from. Thanks for keeping up informed.

[GTPprix]

Well maybe I spoke too soon, Wade insisted that I shoot it and it would work. To my amazement it did and he was absolutely right! I'm VERY happy with this now, the only thing I may do is champfer the entry to the chamber to help with one minor issue I had. I shot 100 rounds out of it today and it worked 98% of the time. I believe a champfer will fix the 2% issue. I'm extatic!

[JCook]

Got my TN 9mm barrel Thursday. It has some light finish wear, and had unburnt powder flecks in the barrel. I assume that was from test-firing, unless I was sent GTPPrix's old one :)

I took it out on my lunch break yesterday, installed on my TE conversion. I ran some Georgia Arms 147-grain and Winchester White Box 115-grain through it. Here are the results:

Mag 1: 27 rounds GA - no malfunctions
Mag 2: 31 rounds WWB - 2 failure-to-feed
Mag 3: 30 rounds WWB - 2 failure-to-feed
Mag 4: 30 rounds WWB - 1 failure-to-feed
Mag 5: 10 rounds WWB - no malfunctions

The 5 FTFs were all the same type. Apparently the lip of the casing was catching on the "ramp" on the top of the barrel. The round would stick in that position, bolt partially open. I think a polishing job on the ramp might be in order. Jams were different positions in the mag, no "last round only" or other detectable pattern.

I am going to send it to Mark at TROS for a chop and 3-lug job. I assume he can do the polish job as well. I'll report back when I get it back from him and do another test.

Thanks,
James

[GTPprix]

Got my TN 9mm barrel Thursday. It has some light finish wear, and had unburnt powder flecks in the barrel. I assume that was from test-firing, unless I was sent GTPPrix's old one :)

I took it out on my lunch break yesterday, installed on my TE conversion. I ran some Georgia Arms 147-grain and Winchester White Box 115-grain through it. Here are the results:

Mag 1: 27 rounds GA - no malfunctions
Mag 2: 31 rounds WWB - 2 failure-to-feed
Mag 3: 30 rounds WWB - 2 failure-to-feed
Mag 4: 30 rounds WWB - 1 failure-to-feed
Mag 5: 10 rounds WWB - no malfunctions

The 5 FTFs were all the same type. Apparently the lip of the casing was catching on the "ramp" on the top of the barrel. The round would stick in that position, bolt partially open. I think a polishing job on the ramp might be in order. Jams were different positions in the mag, no "last round only" or other detectable pattern.

I am going to send it to Mark at TROS for a chop and 3-lug job. I assume he can do the polish job as well. I'll report back when I get it back from him and do another test.

Thanks,
James


I did 100 rounds of Fiocchi 115GR and had two of the EXACT same FTF's. I'm 99% sure the barrel needs a champfer on the entrace to the chamber as the HK's have this but ours do not. Its that sharp edge that catches the casing. After all this time I'll fix that no problem!

[wolf515]

I did 100 rounds of Fiocchi 115GR and had two of the EXACT same FTF's. I'm 99% sure the barrel needs a champfer on the entrace to the chamber as the HK's have this but ours do not. Its that sharp edge that catches the casing. After all this time I'll fix that no problem!



Several of our department guns had a problem with ramp feeding problems. These were Smith and Wesson handguns, but our armor used the Simichrome polish with a cloth dremel tool and it polished the ramp and it quickly ended our ramp feeding problems, he actually recommends using it once a year to ensure maximum reliability on the feed ramp.

http://www.123tack.com/winning/product.asp?dept_id=3166&pf_id=PAAAAALNGJJGKGOB&ad_id=feedperfect&key_id=SIMICHROMEPOLISH&productid=PAAAAALNGJJGKGOB&channelid=FROOG
I dont know if you can buy it from this page but just the first page i found on google.

[JCook]

Mark has my TN 9mm barrel in hand. He is going to polish the ramp for me. He said that it is thick enough to do an integral 3-lug, so we'll see what happens. I'll report back when he gets it done.

[tim3gun]

great job, very informative.

[kong]

great job, very informative.


Good stuff! Any pics of the completed rifle?

[GEBEBPRS]

I noticed that Adam has more barrel parts... So is it possible to built this animal now?
thanks

[dan_wilson_ou]

It is you I blame for my most recent purchase.....now the journey begins.....:28::28:

[JCook]

Mark has my TN 9mm barrel in hand. He is going to polish the ramp for me. He said that it is thick enough to do an integral 3-lug, so we'll see what happens. I'll report back when he gets it done.

Its BAAAAAAK!

[HK4evr]

Its BAAAAAAK!

Well...come on now...pictures please :)

[JCook]

Unfortunately I was too impatient to take a pic before I installed it, but next time I take it out I will do so.



http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/jcook119/DSC01098.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/jcook119/DSC01099.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/jcook119/DSC01097.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/jcook119/DSC01100.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/jcook119/DSC01095.jpg


A couple with my Gemtech Raptor

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/jcook119/DSC01094.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/jcook119/DSC01101.jpg


Mark did an incredible job, as always. The lugs are integral, no thread-on adapter needed. The barrel fits into the receiver perfectly, no problems. The Raptor locks on perfectly too. This is the third barrel from Mark that I have (UZI and P9S 9mm are the others), and I love the fact that I can use one can on 4 guns.

He also polished off the sharp edge of the feed ramp, so it is rounded like a factory barrel. I hope to run some rounds through it tomorrow or Sunday, and will post a report when I do. If the polishing eliminates the feed issues that GTPPrix and I experienced, then we have a winner for folks looking for a barrel to complete their build.

Thanks,
James

[HK4evr]

Very nice. I like the way the 3-lug turned out for you. I am working on my own UCS/UMP conversion as well. Thanks, for sharing the pics. :) Anyone else have a USC/UMP 9mm with pics they want to share?

[JCook]

Took the gun out today to test the barrel. Here are the results:

Mag 1: 30 rounds of WWB - 1 failure, 6th round from the bottom - case edge was crushed on one side like before, round was stuck in the chamber, no primer hit. Had to pop it out with a cleaning rod. I need to check the chamber for scratches.

Mag 2: 30 rounds WWB - no failures

Mag 3 (with Raptor): 30 rounds Special K subsonic - no failures

Mag 4 (with Raptor): 30 rounds Special K subsonic - no failures

Mag 5 (with Raptor): 30 rounds Hornady XTP JHP subsonic - no failures

So, 150 rounds and one failure, much better results than with the original, unaltered barrel. But the fact that the failed round was stuck in the chamber bothers me. Whatever the edge caught on wasn't enough to keep it from feeding in part-way, which jammed it up good. I guess I'll have to run a few more mags through it before I consider it reliable enough to zombie hunt with :)

Thanks,
James

[four]

Hey James.

Looks good! Do you mind sharing how much Mark charged for the barrel work?

Thanks.

[JCook]

$150

[HK4evr]

Took the gun out today to test the barrel. Here are the results:

Mag 1: 30 rounds of WWB - 1 failure, 6th round from the bottom - case edge was crushed on one side like before, round was stuck in the chamber, no primer hit. Had to pop it out with a cleaning rod. I need to check the chamber for scratches.

Mag 2: 30 rounds WWB - no failures

Mag 3 (with Raptor): 30 rounds Special K subsonic - no failures

Mag 4 (with Raptor): 30 rounds Special K subsonic - no failures

Mag 5 (with Raptor): 30 rounds Hornady XTP JHP subsonic - no failures

So, 150 rounds and one failure, much better results than with the original, unaltered barrel. But the fact that the failed round was stuck in the chamber bothers me. Whatever the edge caught on wasn't enough to keep it from feeding in part-way, which jammed it up good. I guess I'll have to run a few more mags through it before I consider it reliable enough to zombie hunt with :)

Thanks,
James


I had a customer that has a similar setup and he mentioned the same thing...first mag or two there were issues but once the "break in" period was done the conversion seemed to run the way it should. Pretty neat conversion. Too bad HK decided to stop importing the USC and the UMP 9mm into the U.S.

[ilovehk]

Yea. I wished for a 9mm USC/UMP, not a 45. Maybe in the future? NOT.

[GEBEBPRS]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/ump3831.jpg
BOND...JAMES BOND

[JCook]

Looks good GMan!

[sjopling]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/ump3831.jpg
BOND...JAMES BOND


Is that a real suppresor or just a cover? If its a cover I would like to know were you got it.

Thanks.

[GEBEBPRS]

http://www.brasscatchers.com/ Designed to fit the HK 45 USC barrel. The top notch 9mm is less than .010 different than the HK 45 barrel. Fits like a freaking glove. Put a thin coat of oil on the barrel first.

[sjopling]

http://www.brasscatchers.com/ Designed to fit the HK 45 USC barrel. The top notch 9mm is less than .010 different than the HK 45 barrel. Fits like a freaking glove. Put a thin coat of oil on the barrel first.

awesome, thanks

[SuicideHz]

Sounds like you need to start loading your own Subsonic 9mm and just making sure you put a decent crimp on the casings- then there shouldn't be any lip to catch on the barrel ramp or chamber.

[SuicideHz]

So if I wanted to build one of these now and you gave me the correct parts list to do it and I wouldn't have to experiment or do anything twice, how much would this cost on top of a UMP, considering that's gonna be something that might fluctuate in price on today's market?

I'm interested in ALL conversion costs to a base gray US USC.

You can leave out the NFA tax as I'm on the fence as to whether or not to SBR and get a SpecWar can or do the integral suppressor route on a factory barrel...

Thanks!

[xfilterx]

http://www.brasscatchers.com/ Designed to fit the HK 45 USC barrel. The top notch 9mm is less than .010 different than the HK 45 barrel. Fits like a freaking glove. Put a thin coat of oil on the barrel first.

I also have a 9mm UMP clone and I have the TN barrel shroud on it right now. I actually don't like it too much because I feel like it's too loose on the barrel. I feel like if I bump it against something, it slide off just a bit and I find myself constantly checking it to make sure it's seated down all the time.

Does this one from barrelshrouds.com fit tightly on a TN 9mm barrel or is it just as loose as the TN barrel shroud?

[GEBEBPRS]

I'm not sure about the TN shroud. This is pretty snug. Putting this on a Top Notch 9mm barrel... it gets tight quick. So I lubed up the barrel before installing the fake suppressor. I really don't care about the barrel. But I wanted it to slide on. And that it did. I can grab the weapon by the barrel shroud...and not worry about it coming off.


SuicideHz - Go to adams web site HKPARTS.net check out the prices. $500 for the bolt
$1500 -+ a few hundred... for a barrel (if you can find one.) Good Luck
If you have both of these you need nothing else. Inspect the bolt. Sometimes replacing the Extractor is required....

Gman

[kdcgrohl]

Adam's site currently out of stock on 9mm bolt. There is one on sturm. tonight though.

[xfilterx]

I'm not sure about the TN shroud. This is pretty snug. Putting this on a Top Notch 9mm barrel... it gets tight quick. So I lubed up the barrel before installing the fake suppressor. I really don't care about the barrel. But I wanted it to slide on. And that it did. I can grab the weapon by the barrel shroud...and not worry about it coming off.

Awesome! There's no way I could grab the TN shroud to lift up the gun, the shroud would slide right off. I'll give the shroud a shot and worse case scenario, I'll put it on my USC. Thanks!

[GEBEBPRS]

trust me they are sweet.... Wait another bolt...for sale... dooh

[SuicideHz]

So how much are the TN barrels? I'd just have one made "right" the first time and have it cut down and "lugged" all at the same time...

[GEBEBPRS]

go to hkparts.net.. I think $295 or $250??? Last time I checked,,they didn't have any...
Glenn

[HKNC]

Very nice. I like the way the 3-lug turned out for you. I am working on my own UCS/UMP conversion as well. Thanks, for sharing the pics. :) Anyone else have a USC/UMP 9mm with pics they want to share?

Love it :)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/HKNC/HKUSC-UMP9mm.jpg

[GEBEBPRS]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/UMP%20PHOTOS/ump3831.jpg
..I have the Jame Bond 9mm UMP Class 1 But I'm also working on 2 more... I can't use the word LOVE anymore....it's beyond that now..

[JCook]

Call Top Notch and order one of the 16" 9mm barrels. When you get it, send it to Mark McWillis for the chop, polish and 3-lug work.

Gordon Miller is advertising UMP 9mm bolts on Sturm now, but they are higher-priced than Adam was selling them for.

Thanks,
James

[One Man]

Guys, Do you have any idea if the Gemtech UMP 40/45 Surpressor will fit the 9mm UMP barrel? I know that one of the reasons Gemtech made the UMP supressor both for 40 and 45 is that it was a liability to make one for each...if you know what I mean. I'm just wondering if the flang on the supressor would be to large to fit on the 9mm barrel without a lot of undesirable "play".

[GEBEBPRS]

I just purchased a 45 GEMTECH UMP SUPPRESSOR. I tested my HK FACTORY 9mm barrel on their 45 UMP suppressor. LIKE A GLOVE!!!
go here..
http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97467

Trust me as soon as my dealer gets the suppressor and as soon we do the transfer I will video the suppressor in action....

So in closing IT FITS!!!! (The 45 UMP GEMTECH suppressor) will fit on a 9mm UMP barrel. The one at the show did...I assume they all do...

[JCook]

I have always assumed that the suppressor would not fit since the 40/45 B&T flash-hider won't fit. I guess I'll have to find a UMP suppressor and see if I get the same result as GEBEBPRS.

Thanks,
James

[One Man]

Thanks for the heads up man!! I've really been wanting to know about this for some time. :)

[bigdick]

http://www.brasscatchers.com/ Designed to fit the HK 45 USC barrel. The top notch 9mm is less than .010 different than the HK 45 barrel. Fits like a freaking glove. Put a thin coat of oil on the barrel first.
do these mess up the finish on the barrel ? how heavy are they ?

[GEBEBPRS]

I used oil and white lube... to install.. Don't know...
I was careful....

[freddy979]

Does the brasscatchers.com barrel shroud attach with set screws?

[One Man]

Well....I'm on the fence and here's the issue...

I have the option to buy the Gemtech 40/45 suppressor for my 9mm UMP from a dealer here locally....but I'm worried that I'll be disappointed with the ability of this suppressor to quiet the UMP sufficiently. I don't understand the architecture behind the construction of a suppressor very well but I assume the .45 opening at the end will allow a fair amount of flame, sound, and/or pressure to bypass the damping material essentially negating the use of the suppressor anyway.

What do you sages of suppressors have to say with regard to the use of a .45 suppressor (primarily the Gemtech in question) being used on a 9mm firearm?? My beloved UMP9…

[nerd0606]

Well....I'm on the fence and here's the issue...

I have the option to buy the Gemtech 40/45 suppressor for my 9mm UMP from a dealer here locally....but I'm worried that I'll be disappointed with the ability of this suppressor to quiet the UMP sufficiently. I don't understand the architecture behind the construction of a suppressor very well but I assume the .45 opening at the end will allow a fair amount of flame, sound, and/or pressure to bypass the damping material essentially negating the use of the suppressor anyway.

What do you sages of suppressors have to say with regard to the use of a .45 suppressor (primarily the Gemtech in question) being used on a 9mm firearm?? My beloved UMP9…

You should trade me your ump9 parts for my ump45 parts and it will suite your needs.:43:

[GEBEBPRS]

9MM UMP RULES AND KNOWS ALL
.....DONT TRADE!!!!!!!!!
good luck hunting though :17:

[deuc224]

I second that motion!!!!:83:

[nerd0606]

9MM UMP RULES AND KNOWS ALL
.....DONT TRADE!!!!!!!!!
good luck hunting though :17:

Thanks for the help!:(

[deuc224]

ill keep my eyes open, but to be honest, you should just keep your eyes on sturm 24/7.

[nerd0606]

ill keep my eyes open, but to be honest, you should just keep your eyes on sturm 24/7.

Believe me...I am. You just don't see much HK stuff on any auction site. And thanks for the help.

[Gunschlinger]

So, just out of curiosity, does anybody have any more 9mm UMP's than GEBEPERS? I guess he really is the 9mm UMP master!
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/Gunschlinger/9mmhomo.jpg

[nerd0606]

[QUOTE=Gunschlinger;760040]So, just out of curiosity, does anybody have any more 9mm UMP's than GEBEPERS? I guess he really is the 9mm UMP master!

NO DOUBT!

[wahodges]

UMP45.com has been moved over to the newer server. All links will have ump45.com in front of them now. All cableone links are now dead. OP update post please.

[turbonick]

Sorry, newbie here. I'm very interested in doing a USC .45 to UMP .45 conversion. Does anyone sell all the necessary parts in a complete package? Other than the machining work it looks like I'll need the UMP lower, Ump Stock, Ump magazines, Ump pins, and UMP stock block. Is that correct? Thanks for all the help. I went through the description and skimmed through the 11 pages. Sorry if this is a repeat question.

[USMC91-99]

www.hdps.org

www.hkparts.net

[AviatorDave]

Sorry, newbie here. I'm very interested in doing a USC .45 to UMP .45 conversion. Does anyone sell all the necessary parts in a complete package? Other than the machining work it looks like I'll need the UMP lower, Ump Stock, Ump magazines, Ump pins, and UMP stock block. Is that correct? Thanks for all the help. I went through the description and skimmed through the 11 pages. Sorry if this is a repeat question.

Yep. That's it. They're not really sold in a "package", you just send a fax to HDPS with the parts you want and a credit card # and they'll show up about a week later.

Lower = $300 approx
Stock = $200
Magazines = $55
Hinge Pin = $8
Stock Block = $200
Machine work = approx $200 if you start with a black USC, $250 if a gray one and you want to dye it black.

The only thing you left out are the 922r compliance parts (US made trigger, mag base, mag follower if you're not going to register as an SBR) = $150

[turbonick]

Thanks for the info! I might be starting out with a grey USC. What is the process to dye it? Is it just a reblue?

[AviatorDave]

Thanks for the info! I might be starting out with a grey USC. What is the process to dye it? Is it just a reblue?

Strip all the parts down to the bare receiver, scrub it clean, and cook it in dye solution just below the boiling point for several hours. 3 parts black to one part dark green works well.

[turbonick]

Strip all the parts down to the bare receiver, scrub it clean, and cook it in dye solution just below the boiling point for several hours. 3 parts black to one part dark green works well.


One last question. Where do I find the dye solution? I'm ready to pull the trigger and do the conversion.

Thanks,
Nick

[kdcgrohl]

One last question. Where do I find the dye solution? I'm ready to pull the trigger and do the conversion.

Thanks,
Nick

Grocery store.

[AviatorDave]

Grocery store. Or hobby/craft store, like Michael's, Hobby Lobby, etc. Get the liquid, don't use powder.

[Schlafftablett]

Everything you ever wanted to know about dyeing an HK....

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52130

[turbonick]

Thanks!