.40 USPC - ballistics

[ballzac]

OK - In my quest for the ONE gun that can do it all, I have come back full-circle to the USPC, specifically the .40.

Has anybody chrono'd the .40 Compact with hot loads (DoubleTap or Buffalo Bore)? I'm mainly curious to know how much velocity is lost from the 3.5 inch tube. The gun will serve woods duty (exploring remote trails on the Zuki & hiking) so I would like to be able to squeeze as much velocity out of any given round as possible if it were ever needed.

Also, I have read through past threads but would like to get peoples' opinions as to accuracy, reliability and durability of the USPC 40 in REAL WORLD scenarios. I have read the marketing lit. Lastly, besides caliber, does the USPC 45 offer anything that the .40 doesn't have?

whew....... thanks

[ARKAY.357]

If velocity is your prime requisite, you might want to consider .357 SIG.

It screams!

ARKAY

[ballzac]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm trying to get a good balance of heavy and fast (too bad HK doesn't offer 10mm). The .357 sig is a little too light for me and is also not readily available where I am. I'm mainly interested in finding the fastest and heaviest .40 round and want to know how they perform out of the short USPC barrel.

Thanks

[deadboy]

Check Hornady and Cor-bon for loads designed for short barrels.

[H&K 4 LIFE]

180gr. Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel. Bullet type: Gold Dot Hollow Point

http://www.brassfetcher.com/180gr%20Speer%20Short%20Barrel%20Gold%20Dot.html

[Reoze]

From what I've heard right around 135gr has the best stopping power due to the much higher velocity.

Not that I'd pick them up due to their price, But these look pretty deadly

ballistics gel videos -
http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product_info2.html&setup=1&cart_id=2697448.2348

.40 S&W version
http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product.html&setup=1&ida=61&idp=14&his=0|14&cart_id=2697448.2348

[gunut45]

From what I've heard right around 135gr has the best stopping power due to the much higher velocity.

Not that I'd pick them up due to their price, But these look pretty deadly

ballistics gel videos -
http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product_info2.html&setup=1&cart_id=2697448.2348

.40 S&W version
http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product.html&setup=1&ida=61&idp=14&his=0|14&cart_id=2697448.2348

Not really http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm

[Reoze]

While I agree on some of his points, the conclusivness of his tests I do not. I fail to see how shooting through drywall and water jugs show a rounds stopping power. Pretty much the only thing I saw from those tests are what was expected, Instead of the round mushrooming it fragmented, quite violently.

[TexasJim]

Ballzak, I think you need to clearfiy the area you are talking about (Zuki & hiking in? If your in Bear country, you had better be an excelent marksman and shoot the bear several times in the eye. Even a big cat can be a little over wheming with a .40 cal.

If your talking skunk, I would suggest to turn and get outta there!! As far as people go, a lot of Law Enforcement agencyes use the .40 cal round.

Even the miltary issuses the 9mm to most service personal. I really don't think you want to limit yourself to just one calaber. TJ

[Whiplash23]

I personally don't think that the .40 S&W is up to the 4-legged threats you may have to deal with in the woods. I used to carry a G20 (10mm) in the woods, but I recently switched it for a USP 45f. The 10mm is a more powerful rounds, but compared to what I could buy locally, the 45 acp is more readily available and the +p rounds are in the same ballpark as most 10mm over-the-counter loads. If you have to have a HK, I'd say get the 45 b/c 45 +p is more powerful than 40 S&W. If you don't mind ordering ammo from the internet, I'd say get a 10mm. I really liked my G20...

[Cadillac Johnson]

If you have to have a HK, I'd say get the 45 b/c 45 +p is more powerful than 40 S&W.

Buffalo Bore:

.45ACP+P

185gr - 1150ft/sec - 543ft/lbs
200gr - 1050ft/sec - 490ft/lbs
230gr - 950ft/sec - 451ft/lbs

.40sw+P

155gr - 1300ft/sec - 582ft/lbs
180gr - 1100ft/sec - 484ft/lbs


If your into handloading, check out the Hodgdon Longshot loadings for .40sw. Very impressive..

[Whiplash23]

I don't want to get into a ballistics debate here, but in my unprofessional opinion, muzzle energy is not the full picture. Lighter bullets tend to travel faster and energy has a velocity-squared term. The point here is that it is easier to make a fast light bullet look "good" with very impressive muzzle energies (see cor-bon 90grn 9mm +p for a good example). However, I tend to think that a 155 grn pistol round is too light to adequately penetrate against large animals. I think the vast majority of that energy is going to cause that bullet to fragment at relatively shallow depths, which isn't going to do you much good.

Besides, that muzzle energy for the 200grn 45+p buffalo bore round is lower than others ;-) See speer gold dots for instance.

Check out doubletapammo.com you'll see that they can get 520ft.lbs from a 180grn 40S&W, or you can get a 45acp 230grn round to hit with identical energies. I figure the additional momentum of the larger round will penetrate further, all else being equal. If you have to have muzzle energy, the 185grn 45acp hits with 616, their 165grn 45acp hits with 643. But then again, I emphasize that I don't always believe that lighter and faster equals more stopping goodness.

If you are worried about large cats, then I would feel okay with 40S&W. If you are worried about hogs, 40 wouldn't cut it for me and honestly, anything shy of a 44mag is going to give me pause (though I'll use 10mm or 45acp as long as I have a long gun close). As far as bears are concerned, I feel most comfortable with a big rifle! But I did read not too long ago about a guy killing a bear with a 40S&W, eventually.

[reaper8154]

Not trying to be an ass Cadillac, but there is no such creature as a .40+P. The .40 is loaded too hot to make a +P. Sure it was just a typo, but just in case...

[Cadillac Johnson]

Not trying to be an ass Cadillac, but there is no such creature as a .40+P. The .40 is loaded too hot to make a +P. Sure it was just a typo, but just in case...

That's how Buffalo Bore has it listed. Same thing with +p+ 9mm ammo, it's just what ammo manu. choose to call it, even though it doesn't truly exist.

.40sw isn't loaded any hotter than 9mm.

SAAMI:

.40sw - 35,000
9mm - 35,000
9mm+p - 38,500

Of course those are max pressures, but you get the idea. I'm not sure why I keep reading that .40sw is loaded to higher pressures than 9mm. There's really no difference between the two.

[Cadillac Johnson]

I don't want to get into a ballistics debate here, but in my unprofessional opinion, muzzle energy is not the full picture. Lighter bullets tend to travel faster and energy has a velocity-squared term. The point here is that it is easier to make a fast light bullet look "good" with very impressive muzzle energies (see cor-bon 90grn 9mm +p for a good example). However, I tend to think that a 155 grn pistol round is too light to adequately penetrate against large animals. I think the vast majority of that energy is going to cause that bullet to fragment at relatively shallow depths, which isn't going to do you much good.

Besides, that muzzle energy for the 200grn 45+p buffalo bore round is lower than others ;-) See speer gold dots for instance.

Check out doubletapammo.com you'll see that they can get 520ft.lbs from a 180grn 40S&W, or you can get a 45acp 230grn round to hit with identical energies. I figure the additional momentum of the larger round will penetrate further, all else being equal. If you have to have muzzle energy, the 185grn 45acp hits with 616, their 165grn 45acp hits with 643. But then again, I emphasize that I don't always believe that lighter and faster equals more stopping goodness.



I agree, I'm not saying one is better than the other. I just wanted to point out that as far as "more powerful", depending on the loading, .40 can have more energy. As you pointed out, that's just one factor however.