US made HK45

[P7M8]

Started this in a new thread as to not hijack another's post.....


Someone mentioned that the US made HK45 was for Spec. Ops contracts only and not for civilian sale. Anyone else hear this? It doesn't make sense to me as 45acp handguns are geared to the US market in the first place. Seems counterproductive and costly to have two manufacturing plants for two different sets of customers. With the JCP Program being scrapped does the military even have a contract for the HK45?

[cueist]

Once the HK45 molds gets here it will only be made in the US. No HK45s will be made anywhere else. So they will have to be for both Govt, Fed, LE, and Civilian sales.

[Solidgun]

Yeah, no one else really uses 45 caliber than US anyway.

[gunut45]

Yeah, no one else really uses 45 caliber than US anyway.

It's a shame. It is a great caliber! I would love if it was more widely accepted so the ammo prices could come down! lol

:D

[carboncycles]

Is that true that NO HK45s will be made anywhere but the US? I heard that a small batch will still be made in Germany as well as the US. If the former is true, than that would make the German made HK45s that much more desirable in the long run.

[P7M8]

Is that true that NO HK45s will be made anywhere but the US? I heard that a small batch will still be made in Germany as well as the US. If the former is true, than that would make the German made HK45s that much more desirable in the long run.

The ones on the market now are German made.

[sfguard]

It's a shame. It is a great caliber! I would love if it was more widely accepted so the ammo prices could come down! lol

:D

I wouldn't I don't want to get by one while stationed overseas someplace.

[carboncycles]

Sorry clarification...current batches are made in Germany but once the US factory comes online, HK45s will be made only in the States is what I meant.

[Kost]

When did this happen? IIRC the ones made here are for Spec Ops only, no civie sales. Have a news link for the updated info? Wilcox decided to sell to civie market?

[P7M8]

When did this happen? IIRC the ones made here are for Spec Ops only, no civie sales. Have a news link for the updated info? Wilcox decided to sell to civie market?

That could have been the 416/417 production. But that has since been said to be heading to the civilian market.

[Capp325]

Sorry clarification...current batches are made in Germany but once the US factory comes online, HK45s will be made only in the States is what I meant.
Let's hope this never happens...an HK made anywhere other than Germany just wouldn't be the same thing.

[F22_RaptoR]

Let's hope this never happens...an HK made anywhere other than Germany just wouldn't be the same thing.

It is happening ;)

HK will controll the QC, and make sure they meet the same German standards. Since most of the parts are made with machines (Barrels, slides, frame, fire controll groups) its really not much different, other than the guy pushing the buttons. It wouldn't be like the 9X series, with welds and a lot more skill required for assembally.

It may mean lower prices for the HK45, but thats only a guess.

[cueist]

When did this happen? IIRC the ones made here are for Spec Ops only, no civie sales. Have a news link for the updated info? Wilcox decided to sell to civie market?


Premium Membership has it's advantages ;)

[dtibbals]

From what I have read in all the gun magazines for the last year who have been writing articles about the new HK45 and 416 is that HK is going into partnership with a US based military supplier/manufacture.

There is one main reason HK is doing this. If they want to sell the US military weapons on any volume beyond special forces they have to be made in the USA. Think about it, can you imagine if our main pistol or battle rifle was made in Germany and there was another war where Germany was not on our side or even if they where and the plant gets bombed? Its a good policy that production is in the USA, it would be damn hard for any enemy to really strike our plants in this country.

HK wants the 416 to become the replacement to our standard rifle and they hope if and when we change the M9 that they go with the HK45. So they are getting their ducks in a row. The side benifit to this is the US consumer. It will help HK control some of the cost. The dollar is very week over seas right now, so having materials purchased and built in this country will help control the cost.

Also, if HK really wanted to they could start building weapons that where banned by the US Gov because they had to many parts or a barrel built in other countries. Look at the Sig 556, that could not be built in Germany and imported into the USA. So who knows, HK could build some of the older "classic" weapons again if they wanted to. I would assume they will not since the tooling cost is huge and they are really trying to set this factory up to build 10's of thousands of guns for the US military. We are simply an after thought but the after thought that helps them get this done with out having a US contract.

I think HK is finally getting it that the US consumer is helping keep them a float until they get a US contract. They would not be able to open a US factory to build guns if they did not have an outlet for them. So I guess for once they need us! I think you will be seeing HK417 rolling into stores by the end of 2008. I just pray in time before any bands go into effect. I figure Bush is in office till Jan 09 so earliest we would see a ban would be fall of 09 and probably not till Jan or so 2010. Gives us a couple of years to buy what we want!

Dave

[MP5_smg]

HK will controll the QC, and make sure they meet the same German standards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, didn't people said the exact same thing about SIG back then?

I hear a lot of complaint about SIGARMS QC nowadays. I fear that the same will happen to the US branch of H&K.

[carboncycles]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, didn't people said the exact same thing about SIG back then?

I hear a lot of complaint about SIGARMS QC nowadays. I fear that the same will happen to the US branch of H&K.

That is a good analog, and this is also my greatest fear.

[Va_Dinger]

I think HK is finally getting it that the US consumer is helping keep them a float until they get a US contract.

I highly doubt HK is in any trouble.

HK416 U.S. Mil/LE sales have been very good - current wait time is 3-4 months so they cannot even keep them in stock. Plus the new P30 & HK45 handgun sales have been doing well from what I've seen,

This is also ignoring the foreign & domestic German military sales.

[Capp325]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, didn't people said the exact same thing about SIG back then?

I hear a lot of complaint about SIGARMS QC nowadays. I fear that the same will happen to the US branch of H&K.
That's my concern as well. Nothing against American workers, but when it comes to American managers, penny pinching is practically a religious belief. And if there is anything that can possibly be screwed up, you can always count on bean counters to do it.

[GPD45]

Will the US made HK45 pistols be cheaper in price?

GPD45

[veritas]

It will depend on HK's strategy. If they really want to accelerate sales and gain market share (more profit through volume), they may. What is clear is that German-made HKs are not going to get any less expensive given the continual rise of the Euro. My guess is right now HK has very little-to-no pricing flexibility given the Euro's strength. I imagine their finance and marketing gurus are doing their scenarios. Whatever makes them $$$ is what they will do.

One might also argue that the "Made in Germany" commands a premium that they would be forced to give up some on if they came to the US.

Bottom line, A US-made HK at minimum has the option of being priced lower. A German one does not.

[dtibbals]

I highly doubt HK is in any trouble.

HK416 U.S. Mil/LE sales have been very good - current wait time is 3-4 months so they cannot even keep them in stock. Plus the new P30 & HK45 handgun sales have been doing well from what I've seen,

This is also ignoring the foreign & domestic German military sales.

I did not mean HK is having financial issues. What I did say is that if HK wants to build a second manufacturing facility here in the USA with NO military contract for the items they are building here in the USA then the USA civilian market is keeping them a float meaning giving them a market to ship to, get their plant up and running, get the bugs worked out etc. Why the hell would they build guns here to then ship to Germany, they wouldn't. This plant is built for US customers and possibly North America etc.

[veritas]

Actually, there is a scenario where they could ship back to Europe. At minimum, they might do certain components here and ship them back. Shipping low-bulk items like guns or parts is a lot cheaper than labor and US labor (in devalued US$) is far cheaper than Germany labor. The economics would drive this; however, I am sure that many German buyers (particularly government agencies) might frown on this. Let's wait and see. I just hope they get the US factory built and that they keep the quality, which I am sure is also paramount to them.

What would be fantastic is if they would build some of the import-banned 9x series here, in particular the 94. I really doubt that, but they would sell them like hot cakes if they did and transferring tooling can't be that big a deal -- PTR did it so certainly HK could. I would be more excited about new US-made HK-94s than 416/417s. Both would be nice. Anyone else see this as a possibility?

[Montrala]

Actually, there is a scenario where they could ship back to Europe.

Don't think so, as BATF would ask them for "end user" for each part to get export licence. Maybe you don't realize that AWB still exists. When it expired, than BATF took all regulations and applied them to export. Just like that.

[dtibbals]

Actually, there is a scenario where they could ship back to Europe. At minimum, they might do certain components here and ship them back. Shipping low-bulk items like guns or parts is a lot cheaper than labor and US labor (in devalued US$) is far cheaper than Germany labor. The economics would drive this; however, I am sure that many German buyers (particularly government agencies) might frown on this. Let's wait and see. I just hope they get the US factory built and that they keep the quality, which I am sure is also paramount to them.

What would be fantastic is if they would build some of the import-banned 9x series here, in particular the 94. I really doubt that, but they would sell them like hot cakes if they did and transferring tooling can't be that big a deal -- PTR did it so certainly HK could. I would be more excited about new US-made HK-94s than 416/417s. Both would be nice. Anyone else see this as a possibility?

I would love to see that as well but I doubt it would happen. I think the reality is by the time HK would be up and running enough to build those guns there will probably be larger gun control then we have now. But I think HK's line is moving towards the USC and SL series etc, they are cheaper and quicker to make.

[MakeMineA10mm]

HK45s and HK45Cs priced around $600-650 would definitely get me to buy more than one... I plan on buying an American made 45 when they've settled down in price. (I'm guessing the first couple-three months, the US made ones will be just a touch cheaper than the German ones, maybe around $750-$800.) $700 is my price break point for being "too expensive" for a made-in-USA HK45. If they get below that, I'll get a back-up to my German-made one, and maybe even get the 45C model. I'd definitely be hooked on the C, if they'd do a chopped version of the Ergo-Grip on it... Look at all the other licenses producers of HK products in other parts of the world. HK aficionados often point out their faults as they look down their noses at them.