Pistol Grip Philosophy

[NiceHK]

I read allot but rarely post. Some pics of recommended grip positioning for the p30 would be much appreciated. I rented a p30 at my local range and had issues with the slide locking back with my accustomed grip from shooting my cz97b which is identical to how most people like to grip their 1911's. Thumbs down range riding the thumb safety. What is everyones philosophy about hand positioning? Does an ideal tactically correct hand position exist that should be applied to most pistols that a majority of specialists teach? Does the gun dictate hand position and therefor through trial and error you should find what best works for you? If so would you have a different grip for different pistols? What steps do you use to formulate your pistol grip when approaching a pistol that you have never shot before? Also discussion on the HK45 is welcomed as one day I intend to own both excellent HK pistols, the P30L and HK45.

[FIX BAYONETS!®]

Welcome to HkPro.

I'd HIGHLY suggest you take a certified NRA Basic Handgun class, because it's sounds to me that you're fairly new to handgun shooting. After taking the course, you can correctly grip, position and shoot any handgun.

[tastysp]

Your grip seems fine. Thumbs downrange riding the safety on an HK should not interfere with locking the slide back. It might on a Sig where the slide release is closer to the decocker. As long as your support hand thumb is not pushing down or pushing in on the lever it should not affect slide lock. Another thing might be weak mag springs or dirt.

[NiceHK]

Your grip seems fine. Thumbs downrange riding the safety on an HK should not interfere with locking the slide back. It might on a Sig where the slide release is closer to the decocker. As long as your support hand thumb is not pushing down or pushing in on the lever it should not affect slide lock. Another thing might be weak mag springs or dirt.

Seems like my support hand thumb would sneak its way down onto the lever and end up pushing on it towards the end of the mag. I really like the pistol and it frustrated me. I know it is operator error and not the mag spring. I tested several times for function and the slide locked back every time.

[NiceHK]

Welcome to HkPro.

Thanks.

[Scooter]

If you hands are sliding around while you are shooting, you don't have a good grip on the gun.

Your grip should be consistant from gun to gun regardless of the gun design. Some guns do run into the issue with the slide release being in the way. In situations like that, you might want to make a minor change. But the grip should still be as high up on the gun as possible.

[Solidgun]

Todd Jarrett seems to have a good technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

that's what I try for.

[Veenus Envy]

That is a GREAT video.

[NiceHK]

If you hands are sliding around while you are shooting, you don't have a good grip on the gun.

Your grip should be consistant from gun to gun regardless of the gun design. Some guns do run into the issue with the slide release being in the way. In situations like that, you might want to make a minor change. But the grip should still be as high up on the gun as possible.

My grip felt fine and didn't slide around when my support hand thumb rested on the side of the lever with most contact against its pivot point which I didn't think would cause an application of downwards force on the lever to keep the slide from locking back. However 60% of the time it did. I then started to play around with variations to find a solution but ran out of range time. The brief variations I tried did not feel solid and my thumbs did slide around. My next effort will be to position my thumbs higher above the slide release or perhaps what you or any other members may suggest. I prefer to try suggestions from well experienced individuals than possibly developing bad habits.

[NiceHK]

Todd Jarrett seems to have a good technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

that's what I try for.

Fantastic Video. Thank you much. :D

[Scooter]

Have someone watch you shoot to see if you are readjusting your hand between shots. Most people won't notice themselves doing this, only if you get someone else to watch you.

With a thumb forward grip, you shouldn't be exerting any pressure from your thumbs. If you find your support thumb resting on the slide release itself, you need to straight out your support arm to rotate your hand forward.

[Alpha_Mutt]

After an extended time shooting only 1911s I went back to a SIG 226. This was a brand new SIG and I thought it was malfunctioning because the slide would not hold open on empty. What was actually happening was my "1911 thumb" riding high enough to just touch the slide release and cause the "problem". A few rounds really paying attention to grip and the problem was resolved.

[NiceHK]

Have someone watch you shoot to see if you are readjusting your hand between shots. Most people won't notice themselves doing this, only if you get someone else to watch you.

With a thumb forward grip, you shouldn't be exerting any pressure from your thumbs. If you find your support thumb resting on the slide release itself, you need to straight out your support arm to rotate your hand forward.

I will make sure to have an observer next time at the range. Hopefully at which time I will be shooting my own p30. But gosh I am hoping HK will send over the p30L very soon. But how long can I possibly hold out?!

Some pics from p30 shooters showing off your grip would be super!

[Marksman14]

I will make sure to have an observer next time at the range. Hopefully at which time I will be shooting my own p30. But gosh I am hoping HK will send over the p30L very soon. But how long can I possibly hold out?!

Some pics from p30 shooters showing off your grip would be super!

****, I live in Barrington, I'll just take ya to the range and show ya lol.

Anyways, Larry Vickers has a grip VERY similar to the Todd Jarret grip.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/birthhk_033007/index1.html

On page 2 of that article, you can see him gripping an HK45 from the right.

Doesn't do you much good since youre having trouble with the left side, but the Jarret vid should help you out alot.

On the left side of the gun, the higher the better, and your right thumb should be resting on top of your support hand thumb. Its all about maximizing the amount of contact both hands have with the grip.

In short, if your thumb is making contact with the slide lock, you are not gripping the gun high enough.

If you really would like to see a good solid grip, let me know.

Scott

[Scooter]

This is about as high as you can grip a USP.

http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/album/00000169/DSCN4565.jpg

http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/album/00000169/DSCN4566.JPG

Not while the meaty part of my thumb is in full contact with the slide release, it is not exerting much pressure on the slide release.

[aroundlsu]

Todd Jarrett seems to have a good technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

that's what I try for.

Almost as good as John on ExpertVillage.

(sorry had to)

[NiceHK]

****, I live in Barrington, I'll just take ya to the range and show ya lol.

Anyways, Larry Vickers has a grip VERY similar to the Todd Jarret grip.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/birthhk_033007/index1.html

On page 2 of that article, you can see him gripping an HK45 from the right.

Doesn't do you much good since youre having trouble with the left side, but the Jarret vid should help you out alot.

On the left side of the gun, the higher the better, and your right thumb should be resting on top of your support hand thumb. Its all about maximizing the amount of contact both hands have with the grip.

In short, if your thumb is making contact with the slide lock, you are not gripping the gun high enough.

If you really would like to see a good solid grip, let me know.

Scott


Thanks for your offer and sounds great. Im game.

Patrick

[NiceHK]

This is about as high as you can grip a USP.

http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/album/00000169/DSCN4565.jpg

http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/album/00000169/DSCN4566.JPG

Not while the meaty part of my thumb is in full contact with the slide release, it is not exerting much pressure on the slide release.

Scooter thank you for taking the time to take those pics. For sure a good help.

[HKIWB]

Here's an article that explains the evolution of the grip. It helped me wrap my brain around the concept. http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/

Here's a quote from the article that describes typical malfunctions associated with the grip.

"Shooters using straight-thumbs while firing SIGs find that, unless they specifically build their grip to move the right thumb slightly away from the side of the gun, they ride the slide stop with the shooting-hand thumb, and the slide won't lock open when empty. With Glocks, shooters who use an especially high iteration of straight-thumbs sometimes find themselves pushing up on the slide stop with the heel of the support hand and locking the slide open with rounds still in the magazine. With a Browning Hi-Power, in my experience not only does the right-hand thumb depress the slide stop at its rear, but the left thumb bangs into the front of the slide stop in recoil, causing failures to feed and/or eject."

FWIW, I initially had problems with the slide not locking back on my USPc when I switched to this grip, and I've also experienced the Glock malfunction discussed above. My buddy's P30 brought the slide lock problem back, but the gun is so sweet that I ordered one anyway. I'm confident that I'll iron out the issue with the P30 as I did with my USPc.

[NiceHK]

Here's an article that explains the evolution of the grip. It helped me wrap my brain around the concept. http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/

Here's a quote from the article that describes typical malfunctions associated with the grip.

"Shooters using straight-thumbs while firing SIGs find that, unless they specifically build their grip to move the right thumb slightly away from the side of the gun, they ride the slide stop with the shooting-hand thumb, and the slide won't lock open when empty. With Glocks, shooters who use an especially high iteration of straight-thumbs sometimes find themselves pushing up on the slide stop with the heel of the support hand and locking the slide open with rounds still in the magazine. With a Browning Hi-Power, in my experience not only does the right-hand thumb depress the slide stop at its rear, but the left thumb bangs into the front of the slide stop in recoil, causing failures to feed and/or eject."

FWIW, I initially had problems with the slide not locking back on my USPc when I switched to this grip, and I've also experienced the Glock malfunction discussed above. My buddy's P30 brought the slide lock problem back, but the gun is so sweet that I ordered one anyway. I'm confident that I'll iron out the issue with the P30 as I did with my USPc.

Thanks for contributing this article HKIWB. Great info. I hope over time in the near future we can get some p30 specific grip tips but keep info on the Combat Grip coming!

[softmentor]

Almost as good as John on ExpertVillage.

(sorry had to)

roflmao
I have been shooting for one year and experimented with a lot of grips. I have settled in with the exact grip in the Jarret video. When I did, my scores at IPSA went up and the steel falls a lot more.

[ICELINX]

Solid Gun thanks for the post. That was an awesome video.

[CyberH&K]

I will make sure to have an observer next time at the range. Hopefully at which time I will be shooting my own p30. But gosh I am hoping HK will send over the p30L very soon. But how long can I possibly hold out?!

Some pics from p30 shooters showing off your grip would be super!

Don't wait buy the P30. I was looking to buy a .40 for my next gun. Since I don't own one. I had the choice down between the P2000 and Sig 226. Then I went surfing here. I found out about the P30. When I got to hold the P30 for the first time. I was amazed how the P30 fit my hand. As IF HK had made it for me. So since the P30 is not in .40 yet. I bought it in the 9mm. I was not going to buy another 9mm. Since I own a 92F. I am glad I did by the P30.

[NiceHK]

Don't wait buy the P30. I was looking to buy a .40 for my next gun. Since I don't own one. I had the choice down between the P2000 and Sig 226. Then I went surfing here. I found out about the P30. When I got to hold the P30 for the first time. I was amazed how the P30 fit my hand. As IF HK had made it for me. So since the P30 is not in .40 yet. I bought it in the 9mm. I was not going to buy another 9mm. Since I own a 92F. I am glad I did by the P30.


I hear ya. After I sell my 97b to finance an HK we shall see. I do like the idea of having a full size 9mm though, the p30L. From an accuracy stand point I wonder how much the longer barrel will improve the accuracy of this line. I am also researching the LEM trigger. Especially the competition LEM trigger. Currently I am between the SA/DA and LEM.

[smschulz]

The thumbs forward grip has increased my accuracy tremendously but as previously mentioned I too have a problem with riding the controls so that the slide will not open on the last shot. It has been inherently predominant primarily on all of my HK's ~ and not so much on any other handguns. I attribute this to my ineptness to overcome and the HK design. No matter I still love my HK's. I am constantly working on the problem but still have not conquered it.

[Wordsmith]

I too have experienced problems using the thumbs-forward grip on my P2000. Sometimes the slide doesn't lock back if the thumb of my support hand touches the slide stop. I haven't really found a way around this yet. Does anyone here think that slightly stronger mag springs would help?

[smschulz]

I too have experienced problems using the thumbs-forward grip on my P2000. Sometimes the slide doesn't lock back if the thumb of my support hand touches the slide stop. I haven't really found a way around this yet. Does anyone here think that slightly stronger mag springs would help?
You already know the problem & it's not mag springs.:90:

[Wordsmith]

You already know the problem & it's not mag springs.:90:

I think it might very well be the mag springs. No other gun I've ever owned fails to lock back the slide because a thumb happens to brush against the slide stop. This problem is exclusive to my P2000. None of my USPs ever had this problems, nor my Glocks, Steyrs, Berettas, etc.

You do realize that there is a relationship between the mag spring/follower and the slide stop, don't you?

[NiceHK]

I wonder what pistol grip an HK rep would advocate for best control of the gun, accuracy, and keeping that slide locked back on the last round? For either the p2000 or the p30 as it sounds both are in the same boat.

[dtheman]

Great video, I'll have to try that out next time I head out with the 45

[ICELINX]

Solidgun I can't thankyou enough for posting this video. I went to the range yesterday and wrot down the steps Mr. Jarrett taught(after watching it 20 times) and applied these techniques. it quickly fixed my problem of shooting low left. The main techniques which helped was squaring the web of my hand to the backstrap of the gun and having the front site in line with my elbow. My web was slightly to the right of the backstrap pointing to the right of my elbow. The light finally clicked on. This just proves technique is everything, even if one were to practice everyday but incorrectly it would not help without the proper technique. Thank you thank you thank you.