What HK do you carry on duty?

[Roger]

I would like to get a talley of what all the LEO on this board carry for both on and off duty use?

I personally get to carry pretty much anything off the shelf, but for now its;
USP45 Blue w/ UTL
USP9C SS backup on the vest
M3 Super 90 folding stock in the car
off duty is the same USP9 as my backup

For now we are limited to shotguns, but Im working of them to allow rifles and carbines and stand a pretty good chance for letterhead on a UMP in 45. I think I might have actually made them realize that when I have my K-9 out of the car and leash in one hand, I can not use a 2 handed shotgun. Anyway LMK what all you guys carry!

Roger

------------------
In a world of compromise, some dont.

I am not LEO/military, but I think I speak for all the civvies on the board when I say that I would also like to please see what the duty rounds are for all you LEO's who post. This is just as important as the weapon.

------------------
---Jonathan
MP5/SP89/USP9F x3
USP9c/USP40F

[Cliff]

Duty Weapon:
USP45 with hard chromed slide and night sights in Safariland Top-Gun holster loaded with 230gr Remington Golden Sabers.

Off Duty:
USP45 Compact in Galco Concealable holster. Same ammo. I sometimes carry my USP40c instead.

[176]

Duty:
USP45F V1 w/ Remington Golden Sabre

Off Duty:
Colt 1991A1 Compact w/ Remington Golden Sabre

Sorry guys, but I like the slim line colt too. But don't get me wrong, nothing on duty but H&K.

I work for the Nevada Dept of Prisons as a C/O. In the prison I work we use Rem 870 shotguns in the units and Ruger mini-14s in Towers. For transporting inmates we use Dept issued GP-100 38s or use personal weapons. I'm currently qualified on my HK USP 45F and Sig P245 as a back-up. My Dept is supposedly going to allow 40 cal along with 38 spl,9mm and 45 that is already allowed.


------------------

[Frogman]

MK 23 SOCOM, with LAM and suppressor (when appropriate). 12 round mags, and 230 subsonic, 185 +P sonic ammo.

Frogman

[Joysie]

I wanna be a Frogman!!! (I don't want to do BUD/S, though).

[Roger]

Frogman- where do you work?


------------------
In a world of compromise, some dont.

On duty - Smith and Wesson 4046 (yuck!!!) with 180 gr. Hydrashock (ya know, the ones with the post in the hollowpoint).

Off duty - USP40 Compact with duty ammo.

Ski

[Frogman]

Roger,
Sorry, friend. I'd rather not say exactly.

Frogman

[Cliff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frogman:
Roger,
Sorry, friend. I'd rather not say exactly.

Frogman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If he told ya, he'd have to kill ya.....

[Roger]

Frogman- You could have just made something up. I dont carry my SOCOM because I dont want to get it all scratched up. If the department would just issue these to everybody! Just wait til im chief, SOCOM's and PDW's for all!

------------------
In a world of compromise, some dont.

[Frogman]

Yeah, sort of a tricky situation explaining that. I hate that "tell ya-kill ya" phrase and I don't want to fib. Oh well, I guess I just wanted to continue to assert that there are Mk 23's in use by operators. You hear so much silliness out there.

In the meantime, I can't say where I am, exactly...but, "I've been around the world twice. Talked to everyone once. Met a man from Marblehead with a..." (Team guys out there will appreciate this.)

Frogman

Don't want to stray from the topic at hand, but when you say a "UMP on letterhead" I'm guessing you either meant USC or that you're department is going to purchase a UMP for you, to issue to you, and thus remain department, not your, property. Correct me if I'm wrong, (and I'm not), but you can't purchase a UMP or any other weapon of that "type" on individual officer letterhead. To do otherwise would seriously raise the ire of those who regulate said activity, not to mention post-deadly force related court issues. If we could I'd be the first in line. I'm an ardent supporter of LEO letterhead sales of ALL applicable, (and LEGAL) weapons, including pistols, rifles, and shotguns or whatever your department allows. If you take advantage of the opportunity they give you, it gives you a better leg to stand on when the politics comes into play and they decide they no longer want to subsidise, (through letterhead price advantages), or otherwise allow you to carry, what those you protect and serve may not be able to legally own. Sounds like I'm starting another topic, I'll stop now...

[1]

Roger, just to back Frogman up and help him keep his peace I'll just say I think "scratches" are about the least thing in the way of blemishes on his SOCOM. I'm sure it's seen a lot worse than any of us will ever put through our "Collector's items"

Best to you (a fellow socom owner)

I have the MK23 SOCOM pistol with well over
20,000 rounds through it.
I have not babied this pistol in anyway shape or form. I went several months and over 6000+ rounds once without cleaning it and it still performed like brand new..
I tried to make this pistol fail and it refused, My MK23 looks alittle beat up
but I think It gives it character...
Not to digress too much but I do know officers who carry this "battle axe" in the Safariland 6004 holster and love it....
These are mostly in the gang areas of Los Angeles.
Their attitude is "you don't need a backup pistol when you have the MK23"
The "its too big" diatribe is BS, my petite
blond haired blue eyed Kali girl wife can shoot this beast with scarry accuracy...
The only bad thing is that now she thinks it is HER pistol...
Sorry boys, rant mode off...

------------------
MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT AND ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SHOT!!!

[P7M8]

In uniform we are required to carry the issued Beretta 92F http://ubb.hkpro.com/ubb/images/icons/frown.gif. Fortunately I'm not in uniform anymore with the exception of Mardi Gras and details.

I carry from a selection of:

USP45 Tactical w/o UTLII in a Galco Miami Classic or Milt Sparks BN55. W/ UTL in an Eagle Industries tactical thigh rig. 230gr. Gold Dots.

P7M8/P7M13 in a Blade-Tech belt slide or Galco MC. Or as a back up to the Tact in a Galco SOB. 147gr. Gold Dots.

Kimber Ultra ELite in a Galco Yaqui Slide or as a back up to the Tact in a Galco SOB.

Soon to add a Kimber Heritage Edition to the lot.

Benelli M1 Tactical pre-ban.

You guys that get to carry what you want in uniform are fortunate. We're limited to shotguns too. Probably no chance of carrying rifles ever.



[This message has been edited by P7M8 (edited 01-14-2001).]

Roger,
Unfortunately, I have to carry what my department gives me and I have no choice. I HAVE to carry a SW 5946 DAO 9mm (BOO, HISS!!). I carry a HK P7M8 in my vest as my backup as I am allowed to carry what I want (long as it is same caliber)as a backup. I will probably be switching to HK USP compact 9mm as my backup and put my P7 in my collector's case and retire it. It is too much of a collector's rare piece to use it everyday. At least the P7 is getting to be hard to find where I am. Mossberg 590 shotgun (no choice) and AR 15 rifle.

Oh I almost forgot Roger. Off duty I carry HK USP compact 40 and I shoot IPSC with HK USP Expert 40 and win most always. Beautiful guns!!

Well just for starters we are made to carry the Sig P226 in 9mm with Federal
hydro's. If it was choice I would carry my USP40 with 180gr.Speer Golddots like I do off duty.

With the range of narcotics on the street today 9mm "My Opinion" just isnt cutting it, they make us carry 9mm and say its suffcient fire power,then why does it take 6 or more shots to bring down a dopped up crack head? I've had to use my USP 40. off duty one afternoon, I was shocked Not only one shot stop but knocked him back a foot or two!!!


Your duty weapon should be used to protect you and the public instead of some good deal the dept. got on them. I wish it was still the same as ten years ago when we were allowed to pick what we wanted to carry. I'm not alone when I say that most of us at Customs hate having trust our lives with a gun and ammo that we dont beleive in.

PS I'm a Customs Agent not a SPELLING TEACHER so dont hold that against me

Sincerely Sgt. S Conard

[This message has been edited by Sam Conard (edited 01-26-2001).]

Regarding the above response by Special Agent Conard, the 9mm is an ammunition-specific caliber, with some rounds very effective and others abysmally poor. The 115/124-grain +P+ rounds have an established track record by several agencies.

It was my understanding that U.S. Customs went to the CCI-Speer 124-grain Gold Dot in 9mm from the Federal 147-grain Hydra-Shok.
If they are still using the 147-grain Hydra-
Shok then yes, this is a garbage round.
The 124-grain +P+ version would be a better choice.

But the Sig-Sauer P226 gets a thumbs up, this was my carry pistol before the USP, and is still my favorite non-USP pistol.




------------------
---Jonathan
MP5/SP89/USP9F x3
USP9c/USP40F

[citius]

To Sgt. Conard and Enforcer
If the calibre is the same would you prefer the 226 or a USP.
Thanks,

USP45C
P7M8

On duty it would be the HK USP .45 with the stainless slide loaded with 230 grain Gold Dots. Off duty I normally carry my Glock 29 in 10mm and that would normally be loaded with CorBon 150 grain or Winchester 175 gr. Silvertips. both awesome rounds!

------------------
"Vote with a bullet."
"Death to the false ones, dance on a string, til the blood on your sword is the blood of a king!" -Manowar

To Citius,

I prefer USP over P226 because:

1) I like the safety better.
2) I like the mounting grooves for the UTL option (important in darkness).
3) I like the slide release and large mag well better on USP.
4) I like the durability of the USP with the 9mm +P+ rounds
5) I like the polygonal rifling of the USP for higher velocity.

With that said, if I could not get a USP I would still go for a P226, even over other HK models like the P9S and P7M8/M13.

------------------
---Jonathan
MP5/SP89/USP9F x3
USP9c/USP40F

[Unicorn]

Sgt. Conard,
I had thought that all you guys had switched to a Glock by now. Are you able to keep the Sig if you were issued it originally?
Are you an inspector or are you in either the OIA or OI? I'm wondering if Kelly authorized all the inspectors to carry off duty, or still just a limited number, and also how that changed their classification. Inspectors for some stupid reason don't (or didn't) fall under the code for law enforcement, and in some states don't have LEO authority. The K( handlers, and the special agents with IA and OI are all federal law enforcement officers, but the inspectors were not.

[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 01-26-2001).]

Well first things first, I like Sig dont get me wrong I have a P229 In 9mm it does great with Gold Dots. The only thing I was saying about the 9mm is that we have to use Junk ammo (HYDROS) as to the ENFORCER'S reply I agree if we could have the +p+ ammo in our P226s it would be fine. IF I had to choose on the H&K or Sig as a duty gun I would take the H&K just because "IN A WORLD OF COMPROMISE SOME DONT" and I'm one of them.

Sgt. S Conard

Yes we had a choice in the pick. I chose the Sig over the Glock for about a million reasons 1. I dont like the fact that it is always cocked. 2. Where is the hammer?? 3. After hearing about a friend of mine in the SC Highway Patrol who was shot with his own gun "IN THE CAR WHILE DRIVING" the gun fired. There has been other incedents similar to this one with the Glock 22. Frankly " I'd rather have a sister in a whore house than have a Glock" NO OFFENCE TO GLOCK OWNERS!!!

Sgt. S Conard

[18B30]

Job #1 S&W 4546 DAO with the 5 inch barrel, and not by choice. Also have 780 with surefire and 14 inch barrel, and MP5 with surefire.

Job #2 Colt M-4A1 with a 203, and various SOPMOD items (mission dependant of course), get the "POS" M-9, but we have some stomp'in suppressors for them that really work as advertised (every now and then, SOCOM get's it right.
(Also can get just about anything from the Kentucky warehouse with concept letter and 90 day window).

Wandering around town with wife and child..Sig 299 in .357 SIG.

Home (have a bunch of class three stuff at home, but keep it locked up), if it's really that bad, I'll flee with the motorola, the family and the SIG out the back door and let my overly armed local PD handle it.

Frogman you ever frequent the Ft. Pickett or Camp Dawson?

[citius]

Enforcer,or Anyone else
Thanks for your thoughts.
I will never compromise reliability in a gun, which is one of the reasons I own HK's.
I carry my USP45C in a fanny pack and have put thousands of rounds through it with not one malfunction. I'm much more accurate with it than I am with my P7. I attribute that to ergonomics, it simply fits my hand better. Lately I've been wondering if the fullsize USP45 would be even more accurate and more comfortable. Since I use a fannypack the difference in size is unimportant. Well , these ruminations got me to thinking about all I've read on these forums;i.e. the superb accuracy of the Sig 226, it's what SEALs prefer,Etc.Etc.
So I guess my question to you , and anyone else who cares to answer, is this: Is the Sig 226 so much more accurate that I should be considering it over a USP45F or are the doubts placed in my mind just my weakmindedness.
I'm not going to build a stable... I believe the addage "beware the man who owns one gun because he probably knows how to use it".
I'm going to carry one gun system and use the same gun at the range for practice. By that I mean either a USP system or a Sig system, since I've experienced enough muscle memory lapses at the range changing guns to really scare the hell out of me.
In any event my ramblings have probably got everyone sick already. Any thoughts?
P.S. I agree with your 5 points.

On duty

MP5a3 9mm, USP Tactical w/UTL, USPC .45 on my vest.

Off

USPC .45

[jwise]

mattmvfd91,

I am sooo envious of your setup! Your taste is exquisite!

J. Wise

[Roger]

Its good to hear that most of you are able to choose HK firearms at your departments, and are at the very least able to carry an HK off duty if required to carry a non-HK on duty. I understand the logistics of a mass issued firearms and there are advantages to it, even though it means not getting your choice HK you want to carry. I am fortunate to work on a department that allows us to carry pretty much anything we want, only thing is if you want department issued ammo its got to be 9mm, 40cal or 45. I have to say that is the most liberal I have ever encountered. I was also reenforced that my choice to stick with HK when it matters most was reassured at a local IPSC shoot I went to this weekend. Wow, I dont remember the last time I have seen so many malfuntions, Kimber, Colt, Glock, S&W along with custom guns, almost all of them malfuntioned one way or another. I went with my stock, unmodified HK USP with my own reloads and was within a second of the top shooters times there, and I was using my duty belt. All the others had thier race holsters and open top everything, mine was all snapped just like I carry on the street. This confirms my choice in choosing nothing but the best, not compromising and always stay with a German made HK.

Roger

------------------
In a world of compromise, some dont.

[Roger]

Sorry Enforcer, duty loads that are issued are as follows: 9mm, 40cal and 45 are Federal Hydra Shoks, 12 gauge are Federal Classic 2 3/4" 1 oz hollow point maximum. Off duty and back up guns we must provide qualifying and duty ammo and it can be anything from reloads to black talons. For my back up OD USPC 9mm I carry the Hydra Shoks as well since they issued me a box by mistake.

Roger

------------------
In a world of compromise, some dont.

Thanks j wise, the MP5 is an issued item to the HRT, we have a mix of Colt 9mm subguns and MP5's. Our only restriction for a handgun is it has to be a .45. The department issues colt commanders to everyone. Some carry glocks, colt, and one sig. One guy had the front sight fall off his glock, and most of the colt guys are very adept at malfunction drills.

My Hk's have never had a malfunction. Got to love having the best to work with.

[Unicorn]

18B30,
Mind if I ask which group your in? I'm taking a SWAG that your in one of the NG groups since your also a police officer.
Are there any plans for you guys to get the MK23 anytime soon? I'm wondering what you think of it, if you've ever had a chance to use one.

[infrared35]

USPc LEM .40 loaded with Federal 135-grain JHPs. Used to have a choice between several 155-grain loads (including Winchester Rangers) but no longer; the higher-ups have decided they want to mimic the recoil impulse of a 9mm so they went to a lighter bullet.

[Dr. No]

Wow, necropost .....

HK USP 45 fullsize w/Competition Tactical LEM trigger group and safety lever in variant 9 w/UTL. Speer gold dots in 230 grain. I actually have two guns, one stainless, one black - I rotate between them every month or so so I don't have to clean after every time I go to the range.

[infrared35]

Wow, necropost .....

HK USP 45 fullsize w/Competition Tactical LEM trigger group and safety lever in variant 9 w/UTL. Speer gold dots in 230 grain. I actually have two guns, one stainless, one black - I rotate between them every month or so so I don't have to clean after every time I go to the range.

Yeah, I'm used to forums where threads are archived after a month or so. Wow.

Anyway, where'd you get the "competition tactical LEM trigger group" and how much did it cost? I am intrigued.

[230GrainRemedy]

I was gonna say... hey this is from 2001.

ON:
HK USP 45, GG&G Rail w/TLR-2 - Issued Winchester Ranger T Series 230GR.

OFF:
HK USP 40 Compact - Remington Golden Saber Bonded 165GR.

[f2kflyer]

anyone have luck with Hornady TAP ammo? especially in 45?

[KILO1-1]

P30, but now after my shooting I'm carrying my HK45. I wont get my P30 back until I'm cleared by the DA's office.

[policemedic]

Full-size USP 45 with 230gr Black Hills JHPs and X200 light. That will be changing very shortly to my HK45 with the same ammo and light.

Off-duty, it depends. Generally the HK45 or the Wilson CQB. If I'm headed to the People's Republic of New Jersey I switch the JHPs for Pow'r Balls.

[speedracer]

I carry a USP 40C as a back up. a sig 229r .40 for duty

[jac3k]

On: HK USP 45 w. UTL loaded with the new (HST (?)) Federal round. HK P2000sk .40 on my vest as a back up.

Off: HK P2000sk .40

[FChen17213]

Kilo1-1, good luck with all that at the DA's Office. I'm sure it was a very clean shooting, and you are a hero for saving multiple lives. Also, most every DA's Office wants to keep very good relationships with the local Police Departments or nothing gets done correctly. Not just that, although many DA's get a bad rap, most of them are very good reasonable people who aren't just looking to charge every person they see.

I think we all need to thank and salute 18B30 and Frogman for their service to our country. I think most people can guess by their screen names what they do. I'll just leave it at that. They are truly brave brave men who go into harm's way regularly for our freedom.

Since the HK45 and P30 are so new, it is very doubtful that many departments will be adopting these weapons for service. In fact, I haven't heard of a single police department that has adopted the P2000 for a service gun. The USP is the only one that I've seen being widely used by police departments.

[SO758]

USP .45

[OfcrJosh462]

On:
HK USP 40 w Surefire rail and X300 light

Off:
HK P2000 .40 in a DeSantis belt slide

Federal Tactical HST in both

[ChiefPilot]

Glock 23 (shudder - retch :8: ) on duty. 180 gr Federal Hydra Shocks

P2000sk 9mm as Back Up Gun (Or my back up 342Ti S&W J frame, depending on where I'm flying, how much gear we have, winter v. summer clothing & flight suits, etc).

USP Compact 45 or P2000SK off duty. We can qualify and carry pretty much any major brand & caliber handgun as back up or off duty. Saves me from Glock mentality around here.

[DETECTIVE1108]

On Duty: HK P7 USP (Remington 115 Gr +P+) or HK USP Compact 40 (155 GR Winchester Ranger HP).. Actually my agency is pretty liberal with carry guns. As long as you can qualify, you can carry it. I am qualified with at least seven different handguns, but I have narrowed it down to the HK's.:62:

Off-Duty: P7 or Walther PPK/S (Corbon 95 GR HP)

[LCSO264]

ON:
HK45 (plan on getting an HK45c when available, HK45 will be a bit bulky for plain clothes carry once spring gets here, right now I am fine, as I am constantly wearing a coat, between the non stop rain an/or near freezing temp.)

OFF:
P7M8

[sfguard]

The very rare M9 :(

[policemedic]

We'll have to buy you a beer for suffering that indignity, sfguard :100000:

[diesel1959]

Full-size USP 45 with 230gr Black Hills JHPs and X200 light. That will be changing very shortly to my HK45 with the same ammo and light.

Off-duty, it depends. Generally the HK45 or the Wilson CQB. If I'm headed to the People's Republic of New Jersey I switch the JHPs for Pow'r Balls.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with HR218 we can carry nationwide and I don't believe NJ can tell an on-duty or off-duty Philly LEO what ammo to carry in that weapon . . .

On-duty, P7M13 with 115gr CorBon DPX +P; MP5 with 124gr Winchester Ranger SXT; HK/Benelli entry gun with #4buck; HK416 with Hornady 55gr TAP.

Off-duty, it depends, but most often it's my S&W 337 AirLiteTi .38 special with Golden Sabre +P. Other times, the Keltec P32 gets the nod . . .

[LCSO264]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with HR218 we can carry nationwide and I don't believe NJ can tell an on-duty or off-duty Philly LEO what ammo to carry in that weapon . . .

On-duty, P7M13 with 115gr CorBon DPX +P; MP5 with 124gr Winchester Ranger SXT; HK/Benelli entry gun with #4buck; HK416 with Hornady 55gr TAP.

Off-duty, it depends, but most often it's my S&W 337 AirLiteTi .38 special with Golden Sabre +P. Other times, the Keltec P32 gets the nod . . .

The State/City of New York recently prosecuted an off duty cop from another State for carrying a concealed weapon. New York was very vocal about their oposition to the National right to carry legislation for cops (off duty and retired).....

[deadboy]

In my super high speed, low drag career as a social worker I carry a P7M8 off duty.

147 gr. federal JHPs with 1 spare mag.

My best to all of you fine LEO gents, safe nights and I hope I never meet you on the job.

Buy an HKpro member a beer though.

[jsbcody]

On duty: Department issued SIG 229 .40 (180 grain Speer Gold Dots). My on duty back up is a S&W 360PD (.38 +P Golden Sabres).

Off duty: H&K USPc .40 (180 grain Speer Gold Dots). I just got a P7/PSP (insanely accurate pistol) that I am going to get refinished, put some night sigts on and then it will share off duty with the USPc. I haven't decided on 9mm ammo for it but I am leaning toward Federal's Expanding Full Metal Jacket rounds right now.

As for a comparison between the 229 and the USPc, at least my opinion:

229: trigger +, grip -, weight -, accuracy =
USPc: trigger -, grip +, weight +, accuracy =

The USPc is relatively new, only have about 500 rounds thru it compared to a couple thousand rounds thru the 229. I expect the trigger on the USPc to "break in" and get better.

[Station18]

HK USP 45 with Federal HST 230 grain +P and three spare mags (For a total 49 rounds of .45)

As a back up I carry a Smith and Wesson Airlite in .357 magnum in my left front pocket. I may add a P2000SK in 9mm to my vest someday.

Z

[Station18]

The State/City of New York recently prosecuted an off duty cop from another State for carrying a concealed weapon. New York was very vocal about their oposition to the National right to carry legislation for cops (off duty and retired).....

F... New York! I'd get the most expensive attorney the NRA can find me and send them the bill when they loose that one.

Z

[policemedic]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with HR218 we can carry nationwide and I don't believe NJ can tell an on-duty or off-duty Philly LEO what ammo to carry in that weapon . . .

On-duty, P7M13 with 115gr CorBon DPX +P; MP5 with 124gr Winchester Ranger SXT; HK/Benelli entry gun with #4buck; HK416 with Hornady 55gr TAP.

Off-duty, it depends, but most often it's my S&W 337 AirLiteTi .38 special with Golden Sabre +P. Other times, the Keltec P32 gets the nod . . .

As much as I would LOVE to agree with you, HR 218 does not exempt us from ammunition or magazine restrictions a particular state may have in place. If we travel on business and we're in another state on business, we're fine with hollowpoints and mags >10 rds, but otherwise...sadly...no. We even technically have to comply with those 30-06 signs y'all have in Texas.

[policemedic]

The State/City of New York recently prosecuted an off duty cop from another State for carrying a concealed weapon. New York was very vocal about their oposition to the National right to carry legislation for cops (off duty and retired).....

Would you happen to have any details on this case? I'd pay good money to follow it and watch it self-destruct. Our FOP lodge might even want to file an amicus brief.

[Aegis]

USP 45 with Winchester Ranger 230 JHP +P

[softmentor]

anyone have luck with Hornady TAP ammo? especially in 45?

I used it for a while but the black plating began to rub off cartridges and accumulate so I switched back to a brass cased round (TAP is brass but has some sort of plating, nickel I think). Now I use Silvertips. They have been around a while and have a proven record. They also ranked most accurate in a review of self defense ammo done with HK USP.
I carry a UPS 40 full size v.1

[coyote135]

The State/City of New York recently prosecuted an off duty cop from another State for carrying a concealed weapon. New York was very vocal about their oposition to the National right to carry legislation for cops (off duty and retired).....


If it is the case i'm thinking of, it isn't so cut and dry. The case I heard involved an **off-duty out of state "constable"** (I think either from PA. or Mass., both of which are lmiited in their training and authority even within their home states** tried arresting someone in New York City. WAY outside of their jurisdiction number one and I believe there were allegations that he mispresented himself on top of that...

[diesel1959]

As much as I would LOVE to agree with you, HR 218 does not exempt us from ammunition or magazine restrictions a particular state may have in place. If we travel on business and we're in another state on business, we're fine with hollowpoints and mags >10 rds, but otherwise...sadly...no. We even technically have to comply with those 30-06 signs y'all have in Texas.

In my reading of HR218, I don't see where the mag limits or hollowpoints restrictions would even apply, unless peace officers of those states are also barred use of them. If it's a matter of a state (such as New Jersey) banning only non-peace officers from carrying hollowpoints and mags >10 rounds, those rules would be seen as state law concering concealed carry and would be inapplicable to an officer/retired officer qualified under the act. I agree as to the private property restrictions though, as that's clearly stated in the text of the act.

[diesel1959]

If it is the case i'm thinking of, it isn't so cut and dry. The case I heard involved an **off-duty out of state "constable"** (I think either from PA. or Mass., both of which are lmiited in their training and authority even within their home states** tried arresting someone in New York City. WAY outside of their jurisdiction number one and I believe there were allegations that he mispresented himself on top of that...

While that may be true of "contables" in PA or MA (or some other state), I'd like to see them try that with a Texas Constable or Deputy Constable--as they are full-fledged Texas Peace Officers under Sec. 2.12 of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure.

[coyote135]

While that may be true of "contables" in PA or MA (or some other state), I'd like to see them try that with a Texas Constable or Deputy Constable--as they are full-fledged Texas Peace Officers under Sec. 2.12 of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure.

+1. Yes, in Texas Constables are the real deal with full TCLEOS certification. I think there are a few states such as Massachusettes, Pennsylvania, and South Carolina with "Constables" who are nothing like Texas and do not have anywhere near the same training (or real LE authority) as those in Texas...

[SpeedFreek]

On duty: MP5, G3A3, Beretta 92F

Off duty USP9F

[f2kflyer]

I used it for a while but the black plating began to rub off cartridges and accumulate so I switched back to a brass cased round (TAP is brass but has some sort of plating, nickel I think). Now I use Silvertips. They have been around a while and have a proven record. They also ranked most accurate in a review of self defense ammo done with HK USP.
I carry a UPS 40 full size v.1

Thanks... I'll check those out.

[policemedic]

In my reading of HR218, I don't see where the mag limits or hollowpoints restrictions would even apply, unless peace officers of those states are also barred use of them. If it's a matter of a state (such as New Jersey) banning only non-peace officers from carrying hollowpoints and mags >10 rounds, those rules would be seen as state law concering concealed carry and would be inapplicable to an officer/retired officer qualified under the act. I agree as to the private property restrictions though, as that's clearly stated in the text of the act.

My understanding is that mag and ammo restrictions apply because 218 states "...may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce...". The act doesn't contain any language exempting us from mag or ammo laws.

Now, take NJ, for example. This is a state that is rabidly anti-gun, and which specifically tells their retired P/Os they can no longer carry JHP ammo. Even if, arguendo, the LEOSA can be interpreted to exempt us from the hollowpoint restriction, it isn't worth it to me have to fight it out in court after I shoot someone in NJ to prove the exemption. And rest assured, some prosecutor in that communist enclave would salivate to litigate a case of an out-of-state cop carrying on federal authority (218) who shot someone with (holy crap!) hollowpoints (approved police ammunition virtually everywhere, including NJ).

I don't know that California would jump and down about a 13-round mag, but again, it's not worth it to me to find out...especially since my shiny new HK45 has 10rd mags :D

I should also say I highly doubt another cop would pinch another LEO for a mag or a JHP (in NJ, each round is a separate count), but if you shoot someone it's out of the road dog's hands and into the D.A.'s.

[policemedic]

While that may be true of "contables" in PA or MA (or some other state), I'd like to see them try that with a Texas Constable or Deputy Constable--as they are full-fledged Texas Peace Officers under Sec. 2.12 of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure.

Different animals entirely.

PA constables are elected locally, somewhat like sheriffs but on a much more local scale. The elected constable is, essentially, given the right and authority to be an independent contractor and bill the courts and defendants for services rendered (serving warrants, court security, transporting prisoners). The fee scale is standard statewide. They may appoint deputies as they see fit.

They have arrest authority, and may carry firearms (though they are NOT required to, and many don't). They cannot enforce traffic laws and cannot have red/blue lights.

In contrast to a sheriff, who is elected as the head of a public agency which employs deputy sheriffs, constables work for themselves and the deputy constables work at the pleasure of the constable who appointed them.

Their training is extremely limited when compared to that received by PA cops. 2 weeks in a classroom makes you a constable; add another week if you want a gun.

[diesel1959]

My understanding is that mag and ammo restrictions apply because 218 states "...may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce...". The act doesn't contain any language exempting us from mag or ammo laws.

Now, take NJ, for example. This is a state that is rabidly anti-gun, and which specifically tells their retired P/Os they can no longer carry JHP ammo. Even if, arguendo, the LEOSA can be interpreted to exempt us from the hollowpoint restriction, it isn't worth it to me have to fight it out in court after I shoot someone in NJ to prove the exemption. And rest assured, some prosecutor in that communist enclave would salivate to litigate a case of an out-of-state cop carrying on federal authority (218) who shot someone with (holy crap!) hollowpoints (approved police ammunition virtually everywhere, including NJ).

I don't know that California would jump and down about a 13-round mag, but again, it's not worth it to me to find out...especially since my shiny new HK45 has 10rd mags :D

I should also say I highly doubt another cop would pinch another LEO for a mag or a JHP (in NJ, each round is a separate count), but if you shoot someone it's out of the road dog's hands and into the D.A.'s.

The verbiage of "...may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce..." is intended to imply that you are moving from state at state and to give the broadest safe harbor to the LEO's moving about the country--with the exception of carrying on airplanes (which is specifically dealt with in the act). You have to go to the legislative history for this.

Some departments are very fussy about what you carry--if you qualify with a P7M13 and that's all you can carry because that's all you are allowed, and furthermore, your PD issues and specifies your ammo, then you'd be outside policy to carry anything else--regardless of what state you are visiting while outside your home state.

I'll grant this--some of the issues are not yet black and white because there haven't been many cases litigated yet; however, the intent is to get cops out there to carry across the country and do what they do.

[diesel1959]

Different animals entirely.

PA constables are elected locally, somewhat like sheriffs but on a much more local scale. The elected constable is, essentially, given the right and authority to be an independent contractor and bill the courts and defendants for services rendered (serving warrants, court security, transporting prisoners). The fee scale is standard statewide. They may appoint deputies as they see fit.

They have arrest authority, and may carry firearms (though they are NOT required to, and many don't). They cannot enforce traffic laws and cannot have red/blue lights.

In contrast to a sheriff, who is elected as the head of a public agency which employs deputy sheriffs, constables work for themselves and the deputy constables work at the pleasure of the constable who appointed them.

Their training is extremely limited when compared to that received by PA cops. 2 weeks in a classroom makes you a constable; add another week if you want a gun.
In Texas, the Constables have to take all the training that regular peace officers must; however, they also have to take the special civil process courses. They are allowed to work traffic, have full arrest authority and most certainly have the standard emergency equipment on their vehicles if they choose. Constables are elected as the head of a public agency, and hire/appoint Deputy Constables to work for them.

[Dr. No]

Yeah, I'm used to forums where threads are archived after a month or so. Wow.

Anyway, where'd you get the "competition tactical LEM trigger group" and how much did it cost? I am intrigued.

I sent mine into HK and talked to Travis in the LE division. He's the ****. It's basically match trigger parts + LEM. Think 1.5# take-up and a crisp 4# break. It's almost like a nice 2 stage trigger in a rifle. Very easy to prep the trigger. I liked it so much, I had it done to my other pistol as well.

Doc

[Dr. No]

As much as I would LOVE to agree with you, HR 218 does not exempt us from ammunition or magazine restrictions a particular state may have in place. If we travel on business and we're in another state on business, we're fine with hollowpoints and mags >10 rds, but otherwise...sadly...no. We even technically have to comply with those 30-06 signs y'all have in Texas.

You do not have to comply with the 30-06 sign as a Peace Officer. Technically, the 30-06 sign only applies to Concealed handgun License holders. The 51% sign might be more applicable, but it does not apply to Peace Officers either. I would not suggest getting drunk with a weapon on ... but you should not be arrested for having a weapon in a bar if you a peace officer.

Doc

[robert14]

On & off duty - HK45 with Gold Dot 230. My stainless USP 45 is now a safe queen, being converted into a Match. I did carry my P30 off duty until my wife determined that it fit her hand & holster better than mine......

[Sarge819]

HK45 w/ X200 Winchester Ranger 230gr +P on duty

HK USPc 9mm Speer Gold Dot 115 +P+ off duty

Smith and Wesson Airweight .38 spc Federal hydrashok 115gr +P backup

[diesel1959]

You do not have to comply with the 30-06 sign as a Peace Officer. Technically, the 30-06 sign only applies to Concealed handgun License holders. The 51% sign might be more applicable, but it does not apply to Peace Officers either. I would not suggest getting drunk with a weapon on ... but you should not be arrested for having a weapon in a bar if you a peace officer.

Doc

I disagree. Policmedic is correct about an out-of-state officer being required to comply with Texas' 30-06 signs (private property restrictions on carrying of concealed weapons), as that's specifically spelled out in the act. Regarding a licensed premise (aka 51% location), I'd beware as the act sets out that the visiting officer can not be under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance", without specifying intoxication. Very slippery slope indeed.

[policemedic]

Regarding a licensed premise (aka 51% location), I'd beware as the act sets out that the visiting officer can not be under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance", without specifying intoxication. Very slippery slope indeed.

No one drinks in Texas anyway..... :100000:

[diesel1959]

No one drinks in Texas anyway..... :100000:

Oh SNAP!

[Dr. No]

I disagree. Policmedic is correct about an out-of-state officer being required to comply with Texas' 30-06 signs (private property restrictions on carrying of concealed weapons), as that's specifically spelled out in the act. Regarding a licensed premise (aka 51% location), I'd beware as the act sets out that the visiting officer can not be under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance", without specifying intoxication. Very slippery slope indeed.

Respectfully, you are wrong. Texas penal code 30.06 states:

§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the
license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another
without effective consent

An out of state peace officer is NOT carrying under the CHL authority, therefore the 30.06 sign does NOT apply to them.

FYI, here is the text of HR218 I found : http://www.leaa.org/218/218text.html Where do you read that it calls out intoxication in Texas or Federal law pertaining to LE carrying of weapons?

Doc

[dtheman]

I would not suggest getting drunk with a weapon on ... but you should not be arrested for having a weapon in a bar if you a peace officer.

Doc

That will get you into a world of ****, doesn't matter if you are a LEO. Thats the fast track for loosing your job, depending on who is handling the case.

Very stupid to be at the bar packing a gun anyways.

[spyder1439]

NEW JERSEY LEO
on duty: sig p226 .357 sig SA/DA winchester ranger jhp i think 125 gr
back up in vest: smith and wesson 442 DAO j frame 5 shot revolver .38 spl +p.

off duty: smith and wesson 442 DAO j frame 5 shot revolver .38 spl+p.
Glock 23 .40 cal jhp hydrashok 155 gr
HK P2000SK V3 .357 sig winchester ranger jhp (same as duty ammo)

Jersey is very strict with its pistols however i have never busted a fellow LEO's balls for carrying even if they are from out of state.
In new jersey if not a cop cant carry more than 15 rnds in a mag, no hollow points, cant carry without concealed carry permit which you need a good reason to get one, cant carry on private property if told by the owner (that goes for off duty cops as well), cant carry armor piercing rounds.

for fellow brothers if travelling to a different state with your issued duty wepon you can carry whatever ammo is isued to you by your department. not 100% sure about an off duty weapon cuz like i said i dont bust fellow officers balls.

[USPCopper]

Duty:
USP45F V1 w/ Remington Golden Sabre

Off Duty:
Colt 1991A1 Compact w/ Remington Golden Sabre

Sorry guys, but I like the slim line colt too. But don't get me wrong, nothing on duty but H&K.

Wow...very similar as me...USP45F V1 w/ Golden Sabres...and a 1911 compact off duty...I too just can't get enough of the 1911's...one of my favorite...next to my USP 45 of course!:14000000:

[USPCopper]

That will get you into a world of ****, doesn't matter if you are a LEO. Thats the fast track for loosing your job, depending on who is handling the case.

Very stupid to be at the bar packing a gun anyways.

Best just to stay at home in your basement, or in the back yard with the BBQ!!!:100000:

[AMG]

USP45f with Winchester Ranger.

[SEH95B]

Duty Weapon:
USP45 with hard chromed slide and night sights in Safariland Top-Gun holster loaded with 230gr Remington Golden Sabers.

Off Duty:
USP45 Compact in Galco Concealable holster. Same ammo. I sometimes carry my USP40c instead.

Lucky Bastard......

[pastryslayer]

We are given our choice of USP 9 or 40, compact or full size. I carry a full size .40. My backup is a Springfield XD subcompact .40.

And a Bushmaster AR15 with an eotech and M3 light. General issue is an 870 pump, you have to qualify higher than normal to carry a rifle, and buy your own.

I have an LWRC piston upper on a NM RRA lower I can't get the armorer to buy off on.

[bordercop]

On duty,
service issued P2000 .40SW with Fed 155gr Hi-Shok

Off-duty,
USP45f filled to the brim with 230gr. Golden Sabre - and yes, I'm still carrying that "oh, my god it's too big to conceal" full size concealed on my 29" waist.

While I am glad that my agency provides me with a quality piece like the P2000, I have to admit my jealousy to others who are allowed some choice in what they carry. The P2000 is a good weapon, but it's a compact, and I would prefer a full length slide and barrel. I hate the fact that we're compromising sight radius for a lighter weight gun. I know that more than half of my co-workers would be carrying some form of a .45 caliber, myself included.

[MJCOL21]

We currently carry a department issued p7m8. Ammo used is winchester ranger 147 gr. sxt. Great chance that we will be switching to the hk45 department wide by the fall.

[nobody33]

On duty: USPf 45, with the m2 tac light. S/W .38 J frame as a back up. Federal HP +P for both. Vang-comp 870, and a Colt H-bar AR-15. Both with all the toys on them.

Off duty: Sig 229r 9mm more FHP +p ammo. And when I'm lazy, the J-frame.


I have a HK45 and a HK45c. I'm going to LEM the HK45, and get an x300 for it. I'll make that my duty weapon as soon as a safariland holster comes out for it. The HK45c will be my off duty gun. I'll stick with the J-frame as my back up, as it's a perfect ankle gun. Putting a gun on the vest voids the warranty.


I'm hoping the semi-auto 416 comes out later this year. If that happens I'm going to switch out my heavy colt AR for that.

[spyder1439]

i used to carry the gun on my ankle but if you get in a roll around with someone you gotta worry about your duty weapon plus everything on your "bat utility belt" plus your ankle gun as well. i like it in the vest cuz the only way to get to it is through my shirt. plus to access it i dont have to be kneeling or sitting and dont even have to take my eyes off the target to draw and shoot. but i guess there are many different schools of thought on backup weapons. i never heard of it voiding the warranty.

[nobody33]

i used to carry the gun on my ankle but if you get in a roll around with someone you gotta worry about your duty weapon plus everything on your "bat utility belt" plus your ankle gun as well. i like it in the vest cuz the only way to get to it is through my shirt. plus to access it i dont have to be kneeling or sitting and dont even have to take my eyes off the target to draw and shoot. but i guess there are many different schools of thought on backup weapons. i never heard of it voiding the warranty.

They made the announcement on many brands of vests about a year ago after a settlement from an Oceanside CA PD shooting several years with a vest failure. The warranty's generally don't let you alter the vest in any way, or attach anything to it.

[NoCompromise]

I carry a P2000 in 40 on duty. I have been issued federal, winchester and currently federal. all hollow points, law enforcement rounds, whatever that means.

[expertek]

At the San Diego Sheriffs (some time ago), in 40 it was Federal Hydrashock. My off duty choice in 40 has always been 165 Grain Golden Sabers (GS40SWA)....

[Volodymyr]

I am surprised how many departments still let you carry a weapon of your choice. My dad is LEO for Seattle and they took that away some time ago, though anyone carrying a different weapon was allowed to continue, one of his friends is trying to become the last guy on the department carrying a revolver lol.

[NickC]

My dad is LEO for Seattle...

Yup, if you were hired after 1995 then you have to use a Glock 22 or 23. Ammunition is Speer Gold Dot 180gr.

[Volodymyr]

Yup, if you were hired after 1995 then you have to use a Glock 22 or 23. Ammunition is Speer Gold Dot 180gr.

I don't think it is hiring as a requirement because my dad was hired way before that. I think what it comes down to is from X date (maybe thats the 1995) if you adopt the Glock platform you are stuck with it for life (and new hires have to use the Glock).

I didn't realize though any carried the 23, and I'm not sure if they have ammo requirements like that. My dad normally has Federal HPs if I recall correctly.

[Deputy Dave]

Look at my signature :)
The 40 is loaded with JHP's in the first two mag's and FMJ's in the 3rd plus two more mag's with JHP in my patrol bag, backup is a rugar SP101 .357 STJHP I also carry a .22 pistol for those unpleasent almost dead animal events