Home defense...

[CheddarB]

I currently have my Usp .40 in a gun vault for my home defense.. I have 7+1 in the gun right now, someone once told me to not fill the mag up completely cause it will weaken the mag spring over time, I rotate my mags about once a month.. my question to you guys is all this a good system? or could I fill the mag up completely and not mess up the mag? thanks...

[H&K 4 LIFE]

Stress on mag. springs mainly comes from compression and then fast relaxation, over and over... i.e. shooting. I would only worry about weakening the mag. spring if the pistol will be stored with a full mag. for over a year.

That being said, your system cannot hurt. If you are rotating mags. anyway, I would just fill them up all the way and test them for function at the range when you can.

[Saxman]

I was wondering the same thing. Right now I rotate my mags every other day.

[imp25rs]

My dad has a Glock 17 that sat in a drawer with two fully loaded mags for over 10 years. I took the gun to the range a few months ago put fresh ammo in the mags and they worked just fine.

[reaper8154]

I would think every other day is wear the mag spring out way faster than just leaving it loaded fo a year or two. I know people who shoot once a year and have their mags topped off the entire time. They never reported any problems.

[P7M8]

I load up my mags to capacity and leave them alone.

[spyder1439]

filling the mags all the way is no big deal - yeah they say over time....yada yada..... if you are rotating the mags then you have nothing to worry about.

however do not constantly reload the same bullet into the chamber it can cause the bullet to sit farther in the casing and when fired it may damage or destroy your gun or worse injure you. for some people who use hollow points for self defense they keep the mag full plus 1 round for the pipe that they unload when going to the range to shoot then reload when back at home with the same round being racked into the chamber. not good jim, not good.

[Frizzz]

I found this article

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130369


Magazine spring madness: 'creep' to your 'elastic limit' to un-earth the urban legend of 'spring-set'

John S. Layman
The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore.

The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?

Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.

Shameful Spring Benders

To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.

[CyberH&K]

Heck I've left my mags fully loaded for years. I took my 92F to the range I had no problems with the Mags. Same thing with my Colt 1911. Keep your Mags fully loaded.

[sniper1]

Frizzz's response should be a sticky!

[MueveloNYC]

I'm going to add that to the P2000/sk faq later...

[sfguard]

Don't worry about keeping the mag full of ammo. It isn't going to hurt the spring. You even rotate them so that is even extra precaution. Load the mag in your pistol up and don't worry about it.

[gunut45]

I am personally going to get some wolf +10% springs. I had my USP .45 mag loaded with 11 for about 3 months and when I loaded up some ball to hit the range last Wednesday I had numerous FTF. The cartridges were not stacking right in the mag. I tried my other mags and the gun functioned fine. Maybe mine was a fluke but not something you feel good about...

[CheddarB]

thank you for all of your replys, I think that I will fill up the mag to capacity but I am still going to rotate mags... I hope to god that I never have to use my pistol on a intruder but if I do I need it to function like it is supposed to... flawless... and seeing as it seems that home invasion in my area is steadly getting worse its not a risk I am willing to take.... about a month ago in my town a elderly man and his wife about 68-70 were woke up by 3 males beating the crap out of them, luckly the man had his .45 by his bedside and got 3 shots off he hit one in the right shoulder and then they ran out knowing that he was armed.. they caught the guy at the local hospital. I think that he gave up his partners ....

[jovasi]

You should probably be more worried that you're keeping your self defense weapon in a safe. Better hope you have the time to unlock it if you are ever in an unfortunate situation.

[kbrhk]

why would you short change your personal safety and security for a $40 mag.? load them up. heck, load up ten spare mags and keep them handy!!! who cares about some stupid mag springs or wear and tear. it's a tool of personal safety. use it!!!!!!! abuse it!!!!!!!! keep them fully loaded plus one in the pipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[P7_Id10T]

I found this article

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130369


Magazine spring madness: 'creep' to your 'elastic limit' to un-earth the urban legend of 'spring-set'


Any metallurgists here in the forum?

My recollection of springs is not the action, but age or heat (>400°F).
It all depends on the spring metal composition and how it was treated.

Some metals change crystalline structure over time, which would result in a spring becoming "soft". Aluminum, on the other hand hardens with stress, and becomes more brittle.

I remember the first time I went to consider buying a gun. The salesman said a revolver was more reliable, that a semi-auto might jam with feed problems.
The next time I went, an elder career army guy was there at the counter. I asked about that again. His reply: "Hogwash. If you buy a gun, use it regularly and get to understand it completely. You won't have any problems."

[bd1000]

I was just going to say something about creep, untill I read a post about it. Magazine steel springs should not be a problem for some time. You would have to put a lot of extra stress, or use them in very high temperatures; neither of which occur from normal use (including storing loaded).

[ulose2]

Rotation is the key, I am gonna buy some Wolff springs for standby/prn

[CheddarB]

You should probably be more worried that you're keeping your self defense weapon in a safe. Better hope you have the time to unlock it if you are ever in an unfortunate situation.

at night when I am at home it gets unlocked....

[ltbarber]

I remember all the gun rags back in the 80's beating this subject to death. all the "experts" advised rotating mags so they could "rest" I always wondered how the mags knew to rest?? what a load of crap!!!!! metal resting!!! when does the steel on the golden gate bridge get to "rest"?? and on and on.......... it is funny,though.

[CheddarB]

why would you short change your personal safety and security for a $40 mag.? load them up. heck, load up ten spare mags and keep them handy!!! who cares about some stupid mag springs or wear and tear. it's a tool of personal safety. use it!!!!!!! abuse it!!!!!!!! keep them fully loaded plus one in the pipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no disrespect sir, but my question was more about the reliability of the mag being compromised than " I am a cheap ass that doesnt want to have to buy new mags or springs" that is what I gather from your reply..

who cares about stupid mag springs? I do.. as should everybody.. that is one of the things your gun relys on to load properly..
If I misunderstood you I apologize.

[softmentor]

Any metallurgists here in the forum?

My recollection of springs is not the action, but age or heat (>400°F).
It all depends on the spring metal composition and how it was treated.

Some metals change crystalline structure over time, which would result in a spring becoming "soft". Aluminum, on the other hand hardens with stress, and becomes more brittle.

I remember the first time I went to consider buying a gun. The salesman said a revolver was more reliable, that a semi-auto might jam with feed problems.
The next time I went, an elder career army guy was there at the counter. I asked about that again. His reply: "Hogwash. If you buy a gun, use it regularly and get to understand it completely. You won't have any problems."


Yep. Heat will allow the molecules to realign and thus loose the spring tension.
Has to get hot enough that it would certainly burn you. Rapid shooting can get up to about those temps. Maybe.
Another testimony. My Dad had a Walther that he kept a full rack on since he got it in WWII. Still functions perfectly. My Grandfather had an auto shotgun that he kept a full rack on since earlier than the 1920's. Still functions perfectly. I hope to inherit them some day. I'll keep a full rack on them too. No reason to spoil a good habit.

[bladesmith2]

To rotate your mags every month or so is a good practice. Dust and dirt are a bigger problem in mags then springs. The spring does not know if they are holding one round or seventeen. I have never seen a spring fail in a mag. How many springs on cars have you seen break or or fail? They are made the same way. When you driving down the road they make your car or truck float over bumps and holes and get the S#*! beat out of them year after year. All the springs in your gun are some of the strongest parts in your gun

[deathtrap]

i noticed the thread name is "home defense" if thats what you are using this for just just buy a shotgun. theres no beating it for in the house!

[Bighunt1975]

I left 2 1911 magazines loaded for 2yrs. A cheap no name mag and and a chip mccormick mag. I took both to the range and rapid fired both with no FTF or FTEs. I agree with deathtrap on the shotgun being great for home defense but if you have kids in the house they are harder to secure and still make easily accessable in a hurry. If you don't have kids around they are perfect.

[Huey]

i noticed the thread name is "home defense" if thats what you are using this for just just buy a shotgun. theres no beating it for in the house!


I'm sorry, but you say that as if there was no other consideration than sheer firepower. In that respect, yes, a good shotgun reigns supreme. There are, however, factors that can and will make a good handgun a better option.

[Geohans]

1911 mags are famous for "spreading" when left loaded.

first sign: A mag that used to function perfectly now does not fall freely out of the pistol.

Also, I've had issues with Kahr MK9 mags left for long periods charged.

[MueveloNYC]

I'm sorry, but you say that as if there was no other consideration than sheer firepower. In that respect, yes, a good shotgun reigns supreme. There are, however, factors that can and will make a good handgun a better option.

Exactly... YMMV. IE: if you had an intruder in your home, walking around corners with a shotgun wouldn't be good, as the perp has an early warning and can push the muzzle away and get closer to you and then attack (while your focus is on keeping hold of the shotty). Ideally MP5 would be best for that close quarters clearing (that's what it was designed for), but for us little guys who don't have that option, pistol will have to do.

[CheddarB]

1911 mags are famous for "spreading" when left loaded.

first sign: A mag that used to function perfectly now does not fall freely out of the pistol.

is this a fixable problem?? or should you just toss them in the trash?? just wondering cause I have a few 1911 mags that do not fall freely....

[Geohans]

is this a fixable problem?? or should you just toss them in the trash?? just wondering cause I have a few 1911 mags that do not fall freely....

1911 mags are considered throwaways by many gurus; they get thrown away as soon as they start sticking. they can be squeezed, but it will happen again, and soon. Some brands seem more susceptible to this. Long term charged storage can/does harm the mag TUBES in the 1911 design; springs are a different discussion;if someone solves this (or if someone has, please lett me know!) they will be wealthy. OTOH my P7 mags have spent many months charged, without a hitch.

If you look around (10-8) you will find measuring tools to check the tolerances on your mag lips. obviously, visible cracks at the back/top of the mag are not good.