Mark 23

[BLAKEMAN]

Nothing else needs to be said. I havn't put it down for a year now.
I have HK's in: USP .45, USP 9mm SD Jet Funnel, and my newest is the HK45.
I have two Mark 23's, one hasn't seen the light of day. I went to the range last Friday to shoot my new HK45. Comfortable, HK blood in it's veins, but I have to admit that I still love the 2"x4" grip of the USP .45, and especially my Mark 23. I guess I've gotten used to them, and, I was thinking the HK45 would be my new carry weapon, I fired two thousand rounds out of the three, but It will be sometime before I stop wearing either the Mk23 or USP .45 daily. By the way do I even have to say the was one single FTF in 2K rounds, I didn't think so.
I feel we need a board for the flagship Mark 23, (since the Guild is gone) anyone else out there fell they are all alone in the admiration of the 23?

[sfguard]

While I admit they are nice weapons I guess the 23 bug didn't bite me like it did you

[F22_RaptoR]

Yep, Mark23's still my favorite handgun so far :D

I love the grip on it... just fits like a glove! :D

[BLAKEMAN]

Hey sfguard, yes I must admit the 23 bug did triger my O.C.D. I had three, but two weeks ago I "sold" one of them to my cousin who is now an HK devotee from the marketing of the Sig, he thought he had the best, now will come the rest, he already ordered the HK45. We both ordered the U.S.C. that day. I guess one 23 in reserve is enough so long as I know where the other one is! I'm going to have to patiently await the new carbine, I'm sure I'll love it, too bad the ATF put the kabosh on ten rounds, how sweet it would be for all the 12 round pistol mags work. By the way I sold him the P220 to get him going, he would grind his teeth everytime we went shooting because the P220 would ALWAYS FTF or FTE whenever we went to the range. You might make it to Hell, but you wouldn't make it back with that reliability!
HK reaks military.

[Kenji]

Hey Blakeman. A little opposite of you. I just ordered my MK23 and I recently got my USC.

And I hate my P220 Match - FTF FTE all the time and back to the factory twice. "To Hell and Back" Sigs motto - that is what you go through when you buy an American made Sig.

Did you shoot the USC yet? I only put about 40 rounds through mine. I need to shoot it a little more, befor I make judement on it. It does have a lot more recoil than I expected, and the wife is not thrilled with getting kicked by it. She does not really want to shoot it - which was one of the reasons I bought it.

Hope you enjoy yours. Believe it or not some indoor ranges will not let you shoot the USC but they will let you shoot .44mag and .50AE pistols. Go Figure.

[MaD HuNGaRIaN]

I originally bought my MK 23 as an "investment". When I received it, I fondled it often, then one day said "what the hell" and decided to take it to the range for 50 rounds, then I was going to put it back in the safe.

Well, it didn't quite work out that way. I have about 2,000 rounds through it, and every time I shoot it, I think to myself "damn, that is sweet."

I have small hands, the P2KSK is my daily carry piece and my whole hand fits the grip, no pinky dangling. That being said, I have no problem with the Mark 23's grip at all.

[BLAKEMAN]

You can't help but to shoot it! The Mark is such a unique weapon. For those of us in the know, there is no comparison! I really have a problem with with the the last shot of the day, depression sets in. But, I just start buying more ammo for the whole HK family for the next outing!
Thanks all, Tim Blakeman.
P.S. Cleaning is as much fun as shooting!

[BLAKEMAN]

You can't help but to shoot it! The Mark is such a unique weapon. For those of us in the know, there is no comparison! I really have a problem with with the the last shot of the day, depression sets in. But, I just start buying more ammo for the whole HK family for the next outing!
Thanks all, Tim Blakeman.
P.S. Cleaning is as much fun as shooting!

[BLAKEMAN]

I must set the record straight, while I love shooting and carrying the 23, I am in no way a Mk23 snob. I realize there are many circumstances where a different model of HK fits the C.C.W. circumstance, hence my USP 9mm. I must admit, after carrying the USP 9mm (SD Jet Funnel), I found myself going back to the USP .45 (Shirt Tucker) for carry. I consider it the "compact version" of the 23. To each his own and I respect that. (as long as it's HK!).

[harrydog]

Your MK23 is your CCW? That's impressive!
I've always had an interest in the MK23 but I never could get past the size of it. Back about five years ago when I used to frequent these forums, quite a few people were saying that the USP45 Tactical was close enough to the MK23 to make it a viable alternative. Some people who owned both actually liked it better. I ended up buying one and I did like it, but I no longer have it.
I just picked up an HK45 which has rekindled my HK desires and now you've got me thinking about the MK23 again.
Please explain to me the differences between the MK23 and the Tactical (or the HK45) in terms of actually shooting them. How does perceived recoil and muzzle flip differ?

[BLAKEMAN]

Hello Harrydog, first let me say I'm 5'10" at 175 lbs. I carry my Mark23 in a Bladetech I.W.B. shirt tucker style holster. I also ride with my USPf .45 in a shirt tucker by DeSantis as well. By no means are these two carrys the ultimate in concealability, but my life does not require ultimate stealth. I just happen to adore these two weapons. As far as off-hand multiple, or single shots, the draw is just fine for defensive mode. Let me state I am not a Vigilante, or an overboard quasi-operator, They just do it for me. As long as they are concealed (Ilive in Ct.) I'm compliant. It doesn't matter whether you can see through my shirt, or t-shirt I'm all set.
As far as weapon control is concerned, My HK45 is more concealabe, as is my USP 9mm. Muzzle flip doesn't come into the equasion, for me as much as for others, because the likelyhood of my needing to keep the sights on a threat are infinitessimal. By the way, if it ever came to that, I would have already found some cover for further placements with the twelve round mags. At the range, the Mk23 has the least flip of them all, more mass, weight, and barrel. Not to mention the truck size double recoil springs. The USPf .45 is second in flip, and my HK45 has the most, it's the lightest weapon of the three. Having said that, the HK45 will hide better in the pants (DeSantis Tuck This holster for the USP). At the range all three are capable in rapid fire of placing shots in a "torso", albeit not with alot of accuracy. I'm not a pro, but that much I can do in a pinch. In slow placement at 25 feet, or 25 yards, they all come in at 3" (or so) of the bullseye, the Mark 23 being the exception, this on will drop them right within 2". It's all in the correct shooting stance/grasp as you know. It's taken me some time to master and consistently keep them in the middle with the proper tecnique (practice), until my vision starts to blur (I'm 43 and need glasses). This is coming from someone who has been shooting since I was 12 years old-all skeet and rifles, not much with pistols. If this helps I'm glad. I'm not a pro, just a recreational shooter, with enough practice to know the difference. I won't get into Sigs, .44 mag., PPK/S or 1911, etc. because as far as I'm concerned HK is the only wepon to trust youe life with. I'll never be a competition shooter that's for sure, but I'll always conceal, and everyone I know has gotten used to it (I've had my C.C.W. since 1986). I'm sure there are those out there that think carrying a Mark 23 is ridiculous, but to me, is my pride and joy which I get most enjoyment from, just make sure when you sit in a car, or tie your shoes, to shift the weapon to the side, or you'll be singing alto-soprano. It's worth it!
Thanks for the question, Tim Blakeman.

[Dump1567]

Sorry for the OT but,

"To Hell and Back" Sigs motto - that is what you go through when you buy an American made Sig.


http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/anim_rofl2.gif

[harrydog]

Thanks for the very informative reply Tim. It doesn't surprise me at all that the MK23 has the least flip but I am a bit surprised that you think the HK45 has more than the USPF. I know the USP is slightly heavier but not by that much, so I figured the better grip and slightly lower bore axis on the HK45 would make it a bit better in that regard. Too bad I no longer have my Tactical so I can compare.
At any rate, I'm really interested in the MK23 again. Too bad the MK23 Owner's Guild is no more.

[ltbarber]

I've said it before,and I'll say it again. I have spent my life looking for the perfect handgun. The perfect balance of power,ergonomics,appearance,balance,etc........the mark 23 is as close to perfect as I have found yet. Is it a CCW? No. I use another gun for that. Here's the acid test as it was applied to me years ago..........if you got a telephone call that someone was coming to your house in one minute to kill you,and you only had handguns there,which one would you grab???? for me,that answer is the mark 23,and believe me,I have a great many to choose from. I have never shot so well with any other handgun before or since. Every year we have a speed pistol event at our gun club to fatten the second amendment war chest. I was defeated by a fellow shooter shooting a SIG P226 by 2/100th's of a second. I was shooting the mark 23. see the difference? I was shooting literally twice the gun,and he barely beat me. it's the whole package,the recoil reduction system,the sights,the grip,etc. if it's not for you,then the search goes on for the perfect handgun. life is good!

[MaD HuNGaRIaN]

..........if you got a telephone call that someone was coming to your house in one minute to kill you, and you only had handguns there,which one would you grab????

ROFL! Nice. I like it. And my answer too is my Mark 23.

[harrydog]

I've said it before,and I'll say it again. I have spent my life looking for the perfect handgun. The perfect balance of power,ergonomics,appearance,balance,etc........the mark 23 is as close to perfect as I have found yet. Is it a CCW? No. I use another gun for that.

I'm still searching for the perfect handgun, and I've been looking for MANY years (I'm old). I don't think it exists. Like you said, the MK23 isn't ideal for concealed carry. Everything is a compromise. It's impossible for one handgun to be best at everything. But for a home defense gun or a gun to carry on your belt when Armageddon is upon us, the MK23 would have to be a top contender.
I just wish I could shoot one before buying it.

[MaD HuNGaRIaN]

I just wish I could shoot one before buying it.

Well, I bought one with the intention of never shooting it, for investment purposes. When the availability lulls, you can always get a couple hundred more than what you paid for it.

That being said, I couldn't resist, and shot it, now I will never get rid of it LOL.

Where do you live?

[harrydog]

Well, I bought one with the intention of never shooting it, for investment purposes. When the availability lulls, you can always get a couple hundred more than what you paid for it.

That being said, I couldn't resist, and shot it, now I will never get rid of it LOL.

Where do you live?

Ohio

[Elesar]

Here's the acid test as it was applied to me years ago..........if you got a telephone call that someone was coming to your house in one minute to kill you,and you only had handguns there,which one would you grab????

#1) Everyone should also have a sholder fired. The correct answer is a 12 ga. Never bring a handgun to a gun fight.

#2) However, given the restricitons of the hypothetical question, the correct answer is actually: leave the house, wait in car out on the street. Run down bad guy when he arrives. :)

#3) Actually, now that I think about it, the correct answer is RUN. The bad guy is actually calling you on the second line from upstairs. :) :)

[ltbarber]

I love it!!!LOL!

[BLAKEMAN]

ltbarber, excellent chime in! My sentiments exactly. Very impressive shooting with th 23, double the mass, double the pleasure. You are right, the 23 isn't the ideal carry weapon (although I do), but the satisfaction knowing that you have the ultimate in weaponry is comforting. And yes, everyone needs a prom gun: PPK/S, as well as a cannon: 12 ga.
Always run from trouble, never turn your back to the defenseless either.
Blakeman.

[WilllyB70]

I have shot one a MK23 and that is a great pistol, but way to large for the average persons hand. It would be interesting to see this setup on a MK23 pistol. I'm sure it would sell much better just due to the frame size

[MaD HuNGaRIaN]

I have shot one a MK23 and that is a great pistol, but way to large for the average persons hand.

My hands are way small, and I have no issues with the MK23. My hands fit the P2KSK perfectly, pinky and all, just to give you a "frame" of reference (pun intented).

[sundowner41]

The MK23 fits me perfectly. Mine's a keeper.

[Shadow1198]

Oh my god Blakeman, you CCW your Mk23?! You sir are a man among men, I bow to your manliness. Being new to the whole CCW thing, I suddenly don't feel so bad about CCW'ing a full size P220. You are awesome! ;)

[Elesar]

Ok, Ok, I'm calling B.S. I want some proof. This whole CCW Mk23 claim is a little hard to belive. Unless you are a very larged framed man, I don't see how this can be carried CCW for anything other than the novelty.

I want to see pictures, in street clothes, standing, sitting, getting in and out of a car, tying shoes, bending over, turning, raising hands, etc.

I realize you can tuck it down in your pants and conceal it if you just stand there, but no way can this be worn and carried throughout the day and remain 1) concealed and 2) comfortable to any reasonable degree.

There, I've thrown down the gauntlet.

[ltbarber]

This is no B.S. I have carried the Mark 23 ccw. I am 6'1'',330LB.,and here's how I did it,and did it comfortably. I bought a Camelback M.U.L.E. in the old BDU pattern at the PX. The mule is a small hydration/backpack system designed for the military to hold water and MREs. I removed the water bladder from the insulated compartment. The Mark 23,with a suppressor attached,fits vertically into that insulated space. I have ccw'd it several times. The gun doesn't "print" because of the insulation,no one suspects there isn't water in there,etc. It doesn't have to be concealed on your belt to be ccw. always keep them guessing is my motto! Kinda' gives me a warm feeling when I do it! The small external pouches hold the surefire flashlight,spares carrier and extra mags. You don't notice the weight at all on your back,rides undetected in the car,or on the motorcyle. I love this thread, and hope you take this post in the true nature it was sent,in truth,to educate,and to entertain,keep em' comin' brothers!

[.45ACP]

I love this thread. I also love my Mark 23s because in my opinion they are perfect as a COMBAT HANDGUN. As a general use handgun they are not perfect because they are too big to conceal. But if you're going into the **** the Mark 23 should be in a thigh rig ready to go. Extreme accuracy, reliability, high velocity from the 5.87" polygonal bore, and great durability (hell you can shoot .45 Super in these!) make it perfect. You also have the threaded barrel for suppressor use, ease of maintenance, 12+1 capacity and what else could you ask for!

[Marksman14]

Felt recoil and muzzle flip aren't the same thing.

I've never tried shooting my MK23's terribly fast, but I can tell ya this...

The USP Tactical has very little felt recoil, but noticable muzzle flip.

The HK45 has more felt recoil, but less muzzle flip.

The HK45 will be faster back on target, despite it having more felt recoil, for the same reason that Glocks and 1911's are fast back on target but have more felt recoil- lower bore axis.

Given the MK23's size, I think its in a category all in its down, but I know the bore axis and weight make it more of a flipper than a recoiler. It does without question have less felt recoil than the USP though.

[BLAKEMAN]

Alright, we have a disbeliever amongst us, this makes this thread great! I already posted that you must shift the 23 when you sit in the car or you'll be singin' with the choir! I carry mine in a Blade tech I.W.B. Kydex, right in front to the right. If I'm casual about secrecy you can certainly notice baggage, on one occasion I was asked "What's that?", I just replied that it was a medical device! That was an awesome comeback, made the person embarrassed, and none the less in the know. When I'm tucked in, the slack in my chamois is enough to not even get any looks. With a T-shirt the weapon is present, but like I stated that here in Ct., the weapon must simply be out of sight, not thumbed up your Glock, so even with some presence I have no apprehensions. I've also said that I'm 5'10" at 175-ish, I'm no giant. At the range I have the Safariland thigh holster which is a dream. I must get back to the beginning, I carry my USP .45f with a DeSantis Shirt Tucker in the front, and it seems like a Mark 23 compact. I'm no over-zealous gun nut trying to be the balls with the 23, it just so happens to be my favorite sidearm, and since I can carry it, I do. Is it the most comfortable in Kydex?, hell no, but you get used to it. Any curious looks are welcome. Remember, just give 'em the colostomy bag reply if anyone dare asks. It's funny some people are agast at the thought that someone is carrying a weapon, when the true patriot n'er gives it a second thought. All of what I say is the truth, try it you'll like it. Concealed doesn't mean you have to have a Taurus .25 auto on your ankle and don't dare let anyone know, sometimes people need to be reminded that we're citizens, not subjects. Many who have the right to carry don't, for many reasons; their wife, friends, family, boss, whatever. It's your decision. To get back on track, I do travel with my Mk23, and it does work. Those who doubt it just don't want it.
BLAKEMAN.

[blackforesteins]

Hi All I am confused a bit sorry on the carrying thing. Perhaps I am issing something or just a nob. I carry a firearm on a daily basis and have a permit to do so. I am not required to conceal it at all. I can wear it in plain site and do on occassion. The law is not a a conceal law it is a carry law and once you have taken required classes and have the prmit why would you want to coceal it i would rather let people know that I have a firearm and know how to use rather than be a mark for some punk. No offense to anyone here intended just my two cents.

[harrydog]

Hi All I am confused a bit sorry on the carrying thing. Perhaps I am issing something or just a nob. I carry a firearm on a daily basis and have a permit to do so. I am not required to conceal it at all. I can wear it in plain site and do on occassion. The law is not a a conceal law it is a carry law and once you have taken required classes and have the prmit why would you want to coceal it i would rather let people know that I have a firearm and know how to use rather than be a mark for some punk. No offense to anyone here intended just my two cents.
I don't think open carry is legal in many areas. but if it's legal where you live, why not?

[BLAKEMAN]

I take it that you live in Wyoming, Vermont, Maine, or some other state that permits you to carry ONLY open, not concealed. I know it's ridiculous, the various laws, but here in Ct., as with most other states, the weapon must be "concealed", just as much as in your state you cannot conceal the weapon. I only wish I could carry open, I'd go straight for the Safariland thigh rig. one other thing that kills me, I live in a state completely surrounded by non-reciprocity states, meaning N.Y., N.J., Ma., R.I., do not honor my Permit, I must notify the State Police if I am traveling through their State, and the weapon/s must be properly stored in the vehicle. It would be wonderful to live in adjacent reciprocity States and travel through, or in, without much fuss. Enjoy your right to carry open, be wary, it does make carrying quite a statement.
BlAKEMAN.

[blackforesteins]

Yes state laws can be somewhat confusing especially traveling through states. I live in Minnesota and have never had any issues with anyone in law enforcement.

[Kenji]

I realize you can tuck it down in your pants and conceal it .....

This is a great thread. I am surprised that no one picked up on the above opportunity and ran with it, describing how it could be concealed. :43:

The colostomy bag is a great idea. I guess many people would not want to see it - even if you offered.

[blackforesteins]

here in Minnesota under the Minnesota personal protection act. We do not have to conceal the weapon we can if we choose to. Even though taxes are 12 highest in the union at least we have our S@@@ together on this

[BLAKEMAN]

Kenji, I gotta tell ya', Whenever you carry inside the front of your pants, people will generally notice something amiss, but avoid looking directly at it, like having a piss stain. If some one's fly is open, unless you know them, you generally don't say anything, you know what I mean? When an acquaintance asked me what that was, and I said it was a medical device, it was like someone just planted a fire axe in his face, probably the greatest knee jerk answer I ever came up with, please use it whenever you get the chance. Freak-in' funny!
BLAKEMAN.

[Leica]

What is the model number for the holster?

[BLAKEMAN]

Hey Leica, which holster are you referring to? The Blade Tech Kydex is based on their I.W.B. for the USPf, but you have to call them (from their website) and ask for one for the 23, they make them to order. Remember to tell them what side, and get a couple of different belt hangar sizes ( 1 1/4" & 1 1/2" & 2") just to have. The belt hangar, when installed, has two square edges at the bottom one of which will stick out a little and dig into your leg, I just razor knifed it and then sanded it and it rides without touching your leg at all, much more comfortable. The Safariland thigh rig is, I believe, model 6004 right hand. Give Blade Tech a call, they'll take good care of you, the special order will take a couple of weeks. That is the only I.W.B. I have found for the 23.
BLAKEMAN.