MK23 or High end 1911 (Nighthawk/Wilson/Ed Brown)

[Viktor]

Hello all,

I just wanted to get some feedback as to what you would advise. I would really like to add one or the other to the "collection" in the near future. Unfortunately, both are not an option just yet:)

Thanks

Viktor

[mjsemtex]

Hello all,

I just wanted to get some feedback as to what you would advise. I would really like to add one or the other to the "collection" in the near future. Unfortunately, both are not an option just yet:)

Thanks

Viktor

i went with the mark23 and am now considering a (cheaper) springfield GI 1911 because i do like the 1911 and am actually happy with the lower priced versions.

oh, and i do not regret the mark23 one bit.

[mlm]

Hi end 1911 all the way. This is my first thought. The 1911 is a much easier CCW. If you are looking for a strictly range gun and may get a can then maybe the Mark 23 is OK. I own 1911's and have shot a friends Mark 23. The Mark 23 has a very nice trigger and is very accurate. Its just HUGE. If youa re strictly just an HK collector then get the Mark 23. I am not a big fan of HK pistols.

[tastysp]

Have you held/shot a MK23? It doesn't fit everyone.
Get the MK23 if it floats your boat, you can always get the 1911 later on. The 1911 isn't going anywhere.
I personally think that there's nothing that shoots better than a nice 1911

[sfguard]

I have had both a Wilson Combat CQB, and the Mark 23. As much as I liked the Mark 23 I really prefered the Wilson. The 23 was just more of a novalty than anything.

[BreakerDave]

If you appreciate the 1911 platform, you will get much more out of a high end 1911 than the Mark 23. The 1911 can be customized and tuned to your personal preference. It is slim and can be carried concealed. There is far more aftermarket support for it (i.e. holsters, grips, sights, etc.). In contrast, the Mark 23 is big for what it is (a .45 in a package the size of a Desert Eagle), it does not have a lot of aftermarket support due to the relatively low numbers, and the USP Tactical is a perfectly acceptable substitute which would allow you to gain the USP aftermarket support.

If you eliminated the thing about the Mark 23 being designed for and issued to SOCOM operators, I don't know that people (outside of HK fanatics and true gun nuts) would want it at all. To me, the pistol doesn't sell itself. -It relies on the whole "cool kids" thing where people want whatever gun such and such LE or military organization uses.

[BanditSRT8]

You can't even dream of buying a Nighthawk for the $2,000 price of a Mk23 so I hope you're prepared for that. I personally would buy a Nighthawk over every other 'semi-custom' brand of 1911.

If you think you might ever want to carry your new purchase, the MK23 is out of the question. It is strictly a range toy. I like them even though they are far to large for my paws... I bet I could still shoot one well and will likely end up with one. For right now though most of what I buy end up in a holster at least a few times, so the MK23 isn't on my short list.

[murfdog]

Hi end 1911 all the way. This is my first thought. The 1911 is a much easier CCW. If you are looking for a strictly range gun and may get a can then maybe the Mark 23 is OK. I own 1911's and have shot a friends Mark 23. The Mark 23 has a very nice trigger and is very accurate. Its just HUGE. If youa re strictly just an HK collector then get the Mark 23. I am not a big fan of HK pistols.

+1 better for CCW.
:901:

[Mark71]

HUGE +1 for the 1911. If I had the money and had to choose between a Mark23 or 1911 I would take the 1911. My $ would go towards a Springfield Professional, Nighthawk, or Wilson.

[harrydog]

You can't even dream of buying a Nighthawk for the $2,000 price of a Mk23 so I hope you're prepared for that. I personally would buy a Nighthawk over every other 'semi-custom' brand of 1911.


My choice of a semi-custom 1911 in the $2500 range would be either a Wilson CQB or a Springfield Professional. You can actually find both of them for less than that. Both of those are excellent guns with lifetime warranties and both companies have outstanding customer service.
My vote definitely goes to the 1911 over the MK23.

[Jason R]

High-end 1911 ALL the way. In fact I prefer the USP Tactical over the Mark 23 (money not being a concern).

I'd rather have a Wilson Combat Professional, Nighthawk, or Springfield Professional over the Mark 23 any day of the week. :D

[Viktor]

Thanks,

Im looking at about $2500. Guns and Leather have a Wilson CQB and a Nighthawk PredatorII for around 2300 something. I must admit the Mk23 would definitely be a novalty purchase.
I really liked how the Wilson felt.

Viktor

[Axel357]

With $2500 I'd buy a Nighthawk Talon without thinking twice. By the way, for NH's well below retail price contact George at Gunslingers (http://www.migunslingers.com/). The site has them listed at retail but if you email him with what base gun you want plus your personal specs he'll give you a quote.

In a perfect world I'd love to own both. :)

[Landpimp]

I know little about 1911's but the Mk23 is no more accurate than a $900 Tactical or frankly just a normal USP 45......if you want a tac driver...I bet a 1911 will be a better bet....but if you WANT a Mk23......get one I guess

[BanditSRT8]

Buy the Nighthawk. 1911 Perfection personified. Also not a "me too" gun like the Wilson's, Baer's or Browns.

[jboro76]

Go with the Mark 23 MPP (Multi-Purpose-Pistol)

In a pinch you can use it as a wheel chock, spare emergency brake lever, book end, hammer... Just to name a few. :)

[ashen]

The way I see it, if you're more passionate about a handgun than the reasons it would be used, go with the high-end 1911. I find that with my HK, I don't have to baby the gun, or devote any more attention or affection than required - I trust it will do its thing so I can do mine. I can't say that about every gun. On the other hand, if you enjoy customizing and maintaining your handgun, a high-end 1911 is probably the way to go. I just shelled out for a Nighthawk Custom Talon, and can't wait to pick it up (on day 5/10-day waiting period). Maybe I'm crazy, but I actually look forward to detail stripping the gun, to getting to work on all the individual parts.

The Mk23 is sweet, but it is a specialized design for a specific purpose. It definitely appeals to the "tacticool" side of my tastes, but I remember something that Louis Awerbuck said in our handgun class, that when the @#$@#$ hits the fan, after the dust settles it'll be a bunch of corpses lying around with their elite gear, while one old man stands over them with his Mauser rifle. What does that have to do with this discussion? I dunno, maybe nothing. In the end, go with what you want - it's your dough :)

[mk23_newbie]

It's not really a high-end 1911, more of a "better than average" 1911, but I have a series 70 gold cup national match with hogue wrap around grips.

I also have the MK23. I honestly shoot better with the MK23, I think it may be due to the larger sight radius and the extra bulk absorbing recoil, but in either case, I love both guns to death. But, I find myself shooting the MK23 more often than the 1911. I'm ready to start conceal carrying the MK23 too, just received a Blackhawk Omega holster for it and a Galco heavy duty belt on the way.

I think the most important thing is to pick the pistol that fits you best. I happen to have larger hands so the MK23 fit me just fine, but some of my friends with smaller hands didn't like it.

Good luck!

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n23/chiang2/IMG_1760.jpg

[03psd]

I say get the MK23. I was looking hard at the Wilson and Nighthawk pistols when I discovered HK. I had my heart set on a custom 1911 but the more I read and tried them out the more clear it became that $2000+ on a pistol that is finicky and needs "tuned" is crazy. Yeah, the Wilson and the Nighthawks are the best of the 1911 bunch but they still are no where near as durable as any HK and the really nice ones cost closer to $3k. Concealed carry may be an issue but buy a smaller pistol for that. Since I stopped drinking the 1911 Kool Aid I have bought a USPf 45 and a HK45c. I have both bases covered and will buy a Mk23 as funds come available. I would bet either of my HKs could shoot hole for hole with any high end 1911 and the Mk23 would probably out shoot any of them and do so out of the box without a custom load or tune.:320000:

[KurtP2k]

In all seriousness, can someone explain to me the rage of 1911's? what makes them so good?

[jepn30]

In all seriousness, can someone explain to me the rage of 1911's? what makes them so good?

Lots of things contribute to the 1911's appeal. Accuracy, comfort, customization options, ease of concealment, and nostalgia are some of them. My main carry is a Springfield Operator (I wasn't looking for a one with a rail but the trigger pull on it was perfect), it's easier to conceal than my USPf. The gun has mystique and a mythos that leads to some to argue that their has not been, is not, and will not be a handgun that will be better than it. I find such notions silly. Most firearms have advantages and disadvantages, you choose what works for you.

[Kost]

Those are not 'high-end', they are cookie cutter 1911's. High end Colt 1911's start life as base model pistols, that are sent to a world class pistol smith and built one at a time by a single pistol smith.

The rage? Until you own a true high end custom Colt 1911, there is a huge difference. This Las Vegas SWAT cop says so too after 3k rounds in one week on a new custom built Colt 1911 'Fighting Gun'...
http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6320

Those of you on the fence about whether or not a truly custom 1911 is worth it, trust me it is. There is a difference between a gun that is handbuilt by a gifted smith, and a semi-custom or production 1911. SA Mil Spec, SA loaded, SA TRP, Kimber, Wilson, Baer, etc, I've owned them all except a RRA so I have a good baseline to compare this pistol to. Every part has been addressed and fit, and I expect to get many thousands of trouble free rounds out of it. I'm hard on my 1911's, they get shot alot, and cleaned occassionly...
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The Mark23 is a great pistol too - get the best tool for the job would be my advise. Hard choice!

[harrydog]

I say get the MK23. I was looking hard at the Wilson and Nighthawk pistols when I discovered HK. I had my heart set on a custom 1911 but the more I read and tried them out the more clear it became that $2000+ on a pistol that is finicky and needs "tuned" is crazy. Yeah, the Wilson and the Nighthawks are the best of the 1911 bunch but they still are no where near as durable as any HK and the really nice ones cost closer to $3k. Concealed carry may be an issue but buy a smaller pistol for that. Since I stopped drinking the 1911 Kool Aid I have bought a USPf 45 and a HK45c. I have both bases covered and will buy a Mk23 as funds come available. I would bet either of my HKs could shoot hole for hole with any high end 1911 and the Mk23 would probably out shoot any of them and do so out of the box without a custom load or tune.:320000:
I think you may be the one drinking the Kool Aid - HK Kool Aid.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an HK fan, but I'm not blind. I've also owned a half dozen 1911's, so I know first hand that the finicky reputation is way overblown. None of my 1911's were at all finicky and didn't need to be tuned, other than when they were first manufactured. Sure, they do require a little more care than the typical polymer gun, but that really just comes down to cleaning them once in a while. A steel 1911 can easily last for more than 100K rounds. They are very durable and very accurate. The trigger on a 1911 is something than no polymer pistol has ever come close to matching.
The custom 1911 and the HK polymer pistols are two very different breeds of pistols and I enjoy owning both.
The MK23 could probably match a good 1911, accuracy wise, but not your USPF or HK45C. The MK23 is a breed all its own. I might own one someday, but if it comes down to an either/or situation, I'll take my custom 1911 any day.

But I should also add that high end 1911's do cost more than polymer pistols and not everyone can or wants to spend that much on a handgun. That's very understandable. The 1911 is not for everyone and I would not try to convince anyone to buy something they really don't want. If HK's are the only guns that tickle your pickle, by all means, buy only HK's. I just don't want people to discount the 1911 as a finicky, fragile gun that requires constant tuning because that's just not the case.

[BIGDUKE60]

i have 7 1911's now

3 kimbers (Gold combat/TLE/RL la swat thingy/ ssGold match)
2 colts (70's combat Gov mod / 70's Gov Mod)
1 datonics (scormaster)
1 ed brown (specl forces)
<<click on photo

this is just the 1911 side...of my house..i have usp tacls .45/usp 9mm
sigs 220/ 226
CZ75
browning Hi Powers (made and asmbl in Belg)
the list go's on...

and when it comes to 1911's
and iv had the $3000 wilsons..ill tell you now. the best out of the box. was the Kimbers...
FOR THE PRICE with nothing to do but shoot it.. save some money and keep your spending on a hand gun under $1000...

all you have to do is ad a shock buff and shoot..
and maby upgrade to wilson mags..if you want to..thats the only 1911 mag i use..
after you get 20 of them..ya just cant stop buying them damn things...lol

no need to spend $2000 bucks on a 1911... i love them all and i like my money..
and after shooting the last 30 years with some of the best guns money can buy..i say..
get what you like the looks of...and dont fall into that..keep up with the nexed guy...
ill take any one of my 1911's ALL under $2000 OVER ANY BIG BUCK 1911....(over $2000.00)..and iv had all the others!!..and my U.S.M.C. unit is and has always used the 1911..we have sent over 200 1911's to springfield armory to have new slides and bbls fit..and with in 2 years the guns are set for a redo..as we shot them ALOT! over 10.000rds ea

I Myself shot my sidearm over 15.000 rds in just 1 year..
give or take 100 rds or so letting others shoot it..but i loged out the ammo for it..so thats how i know..... this was back about 4 or 5 years ago...how time flys...

parts that brake.?. none
but i have seen

firing pin stop (cracked) i see this some times
recoil spring (gets soft) after about 500 rds
bbl links get a but slopy...about 1000rds into it
but still prints fantastic!

by the way..the above list..the gun still shoots 100%

[SCL]

I went through a 1911 phase and have owned and shot the snot out of guns from several top name smiths - Tibbetts, Christiansen, Tussey, C&S, Novak, etc. Calibers ranged from 9mm to .45ACP, with a 10mm and a 9x23 thrown in for good measure. None of them were more accurate or reliable than my Mk23, which was good to go right out of the box, and cheaper than any of the custom 1911s I bought.

1911 gives you a light, consistemt trigger pull that resets quickly - which is why most folks shoot them for games - IPSC, bullseye, etc. Mk23 trigger pull isn't quite as good, but very, very, good for an out of the box gun.

If you need a CCW pistol then I would get a Mk23 and a USP Compact or HK45C rather than get a custom 1911 - this way you have a CCW .45 with the HK45C as well as a tack driver, range gun, cool suppressor platform with the Mk23.

1911 customs are great weapons - but way overpriced and way overhyped IMHO.

SCL

[harrydog]

I went through a 1911 phase and have owned and shot the snot out of guns from several top name smiths - Tibbetts, Christiansen, Tussey, C&S, Novak, etc. Calibers ranged from 9mm to .45ACP, with a 10mm and a 9x23 thrown in for good measure. None of them were more accurate or reliable than my Mk23, which was good to go right out of the box, and cheaper than any of the custom 1911s I bought.

1911 gives you a light, consistemt trigger pull that resets quickly - which is why most folks shoot them for games - IPSC, bullseye, etc. Mk23 trigger pull isn't quite as good, but very, very, good for an out of the box gun.

If you need a CCW pistol then I would get a Mk23 and a USP Compact or HK45C rather than get a custom 1911 - this way you have a CCW .45 with the HK45C as well as a tack driver, range gun, cool suppressor platform with the Mk23.

1911 customs are great weapons - but way overpriced and way overhyped IMHO.

SCL

Glad you got that silly 1911 phase out of your system and moved on to more serious things!

[BanditSRT8]

In all seriousness, can someone explain to me the rage of 1911's? what makes them so good?

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4877/1911tankskz2.gif

[ashen]

^ That pic cracks me up Bandit! hahah

I went with a 1911 mostly because of its trigger and secondly because of how it sits in my hands. At a close third is the appeal I have for the platform. The last reason would be because we are in an interesting time where there are some amazing 1911 gunsmiths/crafters out there, and I'd like to experience their work before I die.

Does that mean I'll shoot better with a high-end 1911 than my USPc? Not necessarily. Maybe in certain situations where you need quick trigger resets such as IPSC/IDPA events, the 1911 may provide an edge. But in the Real World, outside of paper/cardboard/steel targets, you shoot what you have. It cracks me up when people talk about that "one gun" that is ideal for every situation. There is no such holy grail. The HK45 comes close... but I jest :D The ideal gun is the gun you have that can get the job done.

[Jason R]

Hmm. I've seen and had more Kimbers fail time and time again. I'll save my money for the high dollar 1911s (or Springfield 1911s).

Anyways...to the OP: get what YOU want. You've heard our opinions.

[mjsemtex]

in NJ, it's next to impossible to get a CCW permit as a civilian... i bought the mark23 knowing there'd be no chance i'd be carrying it. i do LOVE shooting my mark23.

that being said, i'm currently seriously considering going with a springfield mil-spec. seems to be about the best thing out there on the low side of the 1911 price range (which is where i'm looking).

[timeless]

I agree, I have the mark 23 as a specialty handgun. The 1911 would be more of a all around.

[Kenji]

You do need both – a high-end 1911 and an MK23. So the question is what do you get FIRST?

What do you want to do with it? The MK23 is DA/SA and holds 12 rounds. It has a wow factor and an “I gotta have it” factor. It is also going to cost considerably less than the high-end custom 1911.

The 1911 is SA and holds less rounds. Do you want to accessorize, then the 1911 is for you. Laser grips, flash light, custom grips etc

I just got my MK23 and I have a .45 Nighthawk Custom GRP Recon. The Nighthawk is not “finicky” and does not need tuning – it will shoot anything and NEVER any problems. Although I do not have as many rounds thru the MK23 - NEVER any problems. Both are fun to shoot, both are very accurate, but I can probably do better with the Nighthawk.

I have 2 other suggestions for you:

1. Get a Nighthawk Custom in 9mm. Mrs. Kenji just got one, because she liked my .45 so much. The ammo costs 50% less then .45. It is unbelievably easy to shoot well. It feels like you are shooting a .22.

2. Look at a S&W Performance center 952 (9mm) or a 945 (.45) they are both in the class of a high end 1911.

Have fun and go out and shoot it!!

[policemedic]

The answer will be found, quite honestly, in what you intend to use the pistol for.

If you intend to carry it concealed, the 1911 wins hands-down.

If you're going to only shoot it on the range, and really like HKs, or you were some kind of military high-speed, low-drag type who yearns for their beloved Mk23, then go for the HK.

Me, I'd buy the Nighthawk, just so I can compare it to my Wilson. Since the owner and original staff at Nighthawk were Wilson 'smiths, I'm really curious. Not to mention I really like their GRP.

[.45ACP]

CCW = Go with the high end 1911

Combat handgun = Mark 23 all the way, no comparison.

[G36gunner]

Go with Mark23. It's not good for CCW, but people don't buy Mark23 to CCW. They buy it because of its unique features, there's nothing else out there like it.

1911 on the other hand is a dime a dozen. Sure high end 1911 is special, but even your basic 1911 can be improved to be almost as good as a full custom 1911, and at much lower cost. I have 4 1911, and together they cost about same as Mark23. Your basic Springfield or Colt can be improved and it's also fun you can do gunsmithing yourself.

Mark23 is a "luxury" handgun, just like a Jag automobile. You dont' get it just because you need it for something mundane such as daily commute, you get it because you like it and can afford to buy it and keep it.

[ccsolee]

I'll second that G36 - 1911's are a dime a dozen. I have had several, including a high end Les Baer with a lot of custom stuff on it. Got the Mark 23 because I could, and I wanted something that wasn't what everyone else had.

Imagine my borderline shock when I realized it is actually slightly more accurate from distance than the Les Baer was. It's a tank, that's for sure - but I can carry it concealed in a Blade Tech holster. I know it will not break on me, but if it did I could bludgeon someone to death with it - try that with a 1911.

[BLAKEMAN]

Well Viktor, what kind of response would you expect here. My first auto was a 1911 of WWII vintage (I was 16 or so). I really wanted the Colt, the tradition, styling, pride, etc., of the standard American sidearm. Still love it! Recently I came down with a chronic disease. My physician (FFL) prescribed a continuous course of HK therapy to stave off the illness.
I must suggest that you get the Mark 23. As said in these many posts, the 23 does not fit the bill for the same intentions of the 1911, however; there is absolutely no other weapon that remotely compares to the 23. I have never enjoyed shooting a pistol as much, nor have I ever been any better of a shot, than with the 23. Size does matter, and once you get used to it as I have, you find a very stable grip control. And yes, I do carry it concealed with the Blade Tech. It makes my USPF feel like a compact when I switch over. Above all else (to me), which would you trust your life with? Spend time behind the Mark 23 and from there any other pistol is simply a Prom gun. I'll stop now. I still have plenty of fun with my 1911 now and then, but by far, I shoot the 23 more than any of my other pistols, and I bought the 23 as a novelty at first (then I bought two more just to keep nicey-nice). Walk toward the light, with No Compromise.
Hey jboro76, how are you?.
Either way Viktor you'll have plenty of enjoyment which ever way you go.
Tim.

[azimuth]

I would buy the MK23. Of course, I am a collector. I have weapons for concealed carry and I have weapons for collector or 'neato' value. Once the MK23 bug bites, no matter which alternative salve you use to sooth the itch, only a MK23 will satisfy....

Hehe. One of my 1911's is an LAR Grizzly in .45 win mag, 10mm, .357 mag, and .45 acp.

[ltbarber]

It's apples and oranges.......and the Mark23 is a helluva big orange!!!!! Personally,I am partial to both!!!!!! Get both!!!

[jnkirk1974]

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4877/1911tankskz2.gif

Wow! Now I know I can use it for CCW!
It looks like over-penetration wouldn't be a concern.......however, BLAST RADIUS would be! :)

[jboro76]

When you get a Mark 23, the next thing you've gotta get is a Knights can, so you're right up there in the 3K range.

[MaD HuNGaRIaN]

When you get a Mark 23, the next thing you've gotta get is a Knights can, so you're right up there in the 3K range.

And don't forget the extra mags.....right jboro?? ;)

[steelshooter]

Neither. Get an HK 45. I'll put it up against any other pistol including my 1911's that cost 2 or 3 times as much. The Mk 23 is an oddity and I don't know why anyone would buy one. Their original purchasers haven't had much use for it thats for sure. It's practically a crew served weapon. Thats why it's gathering dust in armories in Little Creek, Coronado, and other places. I really had no idea anyone took the Mk 23 seriously until I see all the people here who have or want one.

[ulose2]

I am with Duke, I owned Baers, Colts also numerous custom tuned gold cups, Kimbers also custom built kimbers, Springfield trophys and std models. I know I am forgeting a company however a 1k to $1100 Kimber will perform out of the box beautifully. You will definitely have a good all around 1911. IMO When it comes down to the 45acp round nothing hits the spot like the 1911. I am a HK guy and prefer them over all others in calibers other than 45. Thats my sentiments.....If you are bent on spending the whole amount, You could buy a Kimber and 23......good compramise...

[MaD HuNGaRIaN]

Neither. Get an HK 45. I'll put it up against any other pistol including my 1911's that cost 2 or 3 times as much. The Mk 23 is an oddity and I don't know why anyone would buy one. Their original purchasers haven't had much use for it thats for sure. It's practically a crew served weapon. Thats why it's gathering dust in armories in Little Creek, Coronado, and other places. I really had no idea anyone took the Mk 23 seriously until I see all the people here who have or want one.

Don't be a hater....shoot one. Unless you're the type who can never admit he's wrong, your opinion will change drastically after you shoot one. I bought one at a killer price with the intention of flipping it for a couple franklins, and one a whim, I decided to put a mag down range before selling it. And, I will never part with it until God himself takes me from this place.

[Mouseboy]

I would get a Colt Golt Cup Trophy. $900 its got a sweet trigger, great sights and you can put thousands of rounds through it and sell it for almost as much as you paid for it down the road.

[FChen17213]

How many people here actually have a MK23 and a high end 1911? It seems to me like there's a bunch of 1911 haters in here who have probably never even handled a true custom 1911 to have any clue what kinds of guns they're talking about. I can talk and talk, but it'd be better off if those people went to louderthanwords.us and checked that forum out. These are mainly the people who like HKs so much that their religion should be HK. Then there's the other end of the spectrum. A bunch of people say that the Mark 23 is a huge boat anchor that has no purpose and that their USP can perform everything the Mark 23 can etc etc. They say that a finely tuned 1911 is the best thing out there. The original poster can get both guns and then judge himself. I hate it when people bash things that they honestly have no clue about. You'll find very few people who have owned $3500 1911s and then sold them saying that they're pieces of crap. Similarly you won't have people who actually own Mark 23s and bash them. They're all good guns.

Now to be more practical? 99% of us will do just fine with a USP 45.....don't need the Mark 23. It's a novelty. Similarly, 99% of us won't need a $6500 Vickers 1911. Get a plain mil-spec Springfield 1911 and send it for a good reliability tune and carry package from a good 1911 smith and you're good to go. The reliability problems and finickiness of the 1911 are way way way overblown for the most part. Stick to 5" steel framed ones that are not Kimbers and you should be fine.

[Cadillac Johnson]

I'd get a 1911, and of the options you listed I'd go with Ed Brown.

Wilson's are overpriced IMO, and I never felt right about how Nighthawk got their start. Wilson starts having some serious QC issues. Some Wilson employee's leave and start Nighthawk. Wilson's QC issues stop.

[hfd]

even tho i have no use for a mk23 i would take it in a second over any 1911 made...
i've had over 80 1911's in my life , only a very few were worth the money and effort they took ...
the H&K won't fit in an ankle holster or an IWB , but who cares as its a fun toy...
if i want serious i have a P2K and an SK that are both near perfect...
any 1911 is simply $$$ crammed down a rathole to be chewed up and crapped out...
if you'd seen the failure rates in modern 1911's that i have you would never trust your life to one...
the best 1911 i ever owned was a bob chow GCNM and you can only imagine what the equivilant of that would cost nowadays...
avoid nighthawk , wilson , and SCS , you don't need the grief and buyers remorse...

[harrydog]

even tho i have no use for a mk23 i would take it in a second over any 1911 made...
i've had over 80 1911's in my life , only a very few were worth the money and effort they took ...
the H&K won't fit in an ankle holster or an IWB , but who cares as its a fun toy...
if i want serious i have a P2K and an SK that are both near perfect...
any 1911 is simply $$$ crammed down a rathole to be chewed up and crapped out...
if you'd seen the failure rates in modern 1911's that i have you would never trust your life to one...
the best 1911 i ever owned was a bob chow GCNM and you can only imagine what the equivilant of that would cost nowadays...
avoid nighthawk , wilson , and SCS , you don't need the grief and buyers remorse...
I can't help it. I think you're full of crap. There, I said it. If I get banned, oh well. I just can't take all this BS regarding 1911's. The internet is full of idiots.

[armalite1]

I own both. I have 1911's in 9mm, 38 Super & .45ACP. The HK 23 is great weapon, but more of a (because I want one) weapon. If I am going to shoot, my bag always has a few 1911's and my 23 stays in the safe alot. It is a good weapon, just not as comfortable to shoot as my 1911's. I have Kimbers and Springfields. But my favorite is a Caspian in 9MM. Custom builds are better in my opinion. Just my .02 cents. Scott

[hfd]

I can't help it. I think you're full of crap. There, I said it. If I get banned, oh well. I just can't take all this BS regarding 1911's. The internet is full of idiots.

thank you for your opinion ...

you would not find a more ardent supporter of 1911's in years past ...
this changed when 9 of the last 13 commercially produced 1911's i aquired required moderate to major work to get them to function...
i realised that the hype was all that was keeping 1911's alive , its viability as an otr pistol for all uses was fading...
not having to worry about what i buy is worth more than any brand or system loyalty...

[Chui]

Hello all,

I just wanted to get some feedback as to what you would advise. I would really like to add one or the other to the "collection" in the near future. Unfortunately, both are not an option just yet:)

Thanks

Viktor
Unquestioningly, unhesitatingly, deliciously 1911.
:830:

[08G37S]

Unquestioningly, unhesitatingly, deliciously 1911.
:830:

I agree.

Second vote: Both.

[kat1950]

Custom 1911

[harrydog]

thank you for your opinion ...

you would not find a more ardent supporter of 1911's in years past ...
this changed when 9 of the last 13 commercially produced 1911's i aquired required moderate to major work to get them to function...
i realised that the hype was all that was keeping 1911's alive , its vialbility as an otr pistol for all uses was fading...
not having to worry about what i buy is worth more than any brand or system loyalty...
It's certainly not hype that's keeping 1911 sales strong. In fact, I think the 1911 has to endure the opposite of hype. It has to endure negative gross generalizations and outright bashing, as you've just demonstrated. If it were even half as bad as you say, it would have died a quiet death long ago. But it's quite the opposite. It's gaining in popularity and the majority of people who own them, really like them.

[cmdrdredd]

It's certainly not hype that's keeping 1911 sales strong. In fact, I think the 1911 has to endure the opposite of hype. It has to endure negative gross generalizations and outright bashing, as you've just demonstrated. If it were even half as bad as you say, it would have died a quiet death long ago. But it's quite the opposite. It's gaining in popularity and the majority of people who own them, really like them.

I tried a 1911, but I much prefer my HK45. not everyone likes the 1911...

[azimuth]

I like my 1911's, but sometimes there is an irresistible urge to secure an asset not so ubiquitous. I suspect that is why some folks prefer a Macintosh.

I think we just quit fooling ourselves and surrender to the desire for both. After all, resistence is futile...

[Blackwind]

It's certainly not hype that's keeping 1911 sales strong. In fact, I think the 1911 has to endure the opposite of hype. It has to endure negative gross generalizations and outright bashing, as you've just demonstrated. If it were even half as bad as you say, it would have died a quiet death long ago. But it's quite the opposite. It's gaining in popularity and the majority of people who own them, really like them.

Big +1

Sorry. I'm go gunsmith but I have yet to meet a truly worthless 1911. I in fact have bought so called "lemons" and in every case, was easily addressed and repaired. (four to date) Hands down I'd take a high end 1911 over a MK23 any day. Especially if we are talking the likes of a Nighthawk Custom T3. I have seen ONE case in all my years that was truly a problem weapon. It was an STI.

I own 4 STI and have never had an issue with any. All have several thousand rounds through them. Go figure.

[jboro76]

And don't forget the extra mags.....right jboro?? ;)

That's right :) But if you buy the remaining mags I have left, it won't cost more that a Wilson Combat mag for the 1911 ;)

[harrydog]

I tried a 1911, but I much prefer my HK45. not everyone likes the 1911...
Obviously not everyone likes them. I said the majority do. Not everyone likes HK's either, but does that mean they're inferior weapons? That was my only point.