connections between USP and Mk23

[Levan9X19]

Recently I once again run through reading material I got about USP pistols and few questions araised. What came first? USP designed for civilian US market or a contender for colt during 1991 contest organized by SOCOM?
I mean where the Mk23 and USP programs separate ones or it was one common program. Which entered the production first? Mk23 or USP?

Testing program and requirements set for each pistol where same or different? The last question is the most important to me. I am just curious cause I saw an old prospect from HK stating "we don not produce the best pistol in the world only for US Specials forces". I wonder if USP was projected with the same requirements as where set for Mk23.

[twisted954]

1989: HK began to develop the USP or Universal Selbstlade Pistole (Universal Self-loading Pistol)...it was widely rumored the specific target market was US...the first version of the gun, introduced in 1993, was actually 40 cal followed shortly by 9mm. The 45 cal version was not introduced until 1995.

1991: HK enters US SOCOM competition against Colt. 1993...the first prototypes for testing were delivered in 45 ACP. HK eventually won and first MK. 23 mod 0 was finally delivered and active in 1996.

The time line given here is to demonstrate that while the pistols are inherently similiar, neither design was specifically intended to fill the role of the other. The Mk. 23 was designed to fill a specific role and utilized design characteristics that were already under development. The USP was actually envisioned before SOCOM testing however I believe that both pistols benefited from the others' development and they most likely evolved side by side. However, the time line also answers the questions with facts. When were pistols delivered and what was delivered first? USP circa 1993 with the Mk 23 not being delivered until 1996 HOWEVER the prototypes were being delivered in 1993 so perhaps that is debatable? In terms of actual production, the answer is still USP as the 1993 delivery of prototype pistols was merely for testing.

As you can also see in the time line of events...the original concept of the USP could not have involved any of the requirements for the SOCOM testing as that request would not be made for two years. That being said, again, I think that the Mk 23 and USP eventually benefited each other as the development progressed.

So the answer is not cut and dry or simple. The Mk 23 stepped in and took what was already being developed and it probably changed what was happening to it's sibling as a result but specifically speaking, they were independent concepts that just happened to be being developed at the same time which.

[Levan9X19]

1989: HK began to develop the USP or Universal Selbstlade Pistole (Universal Self-loading Pistol)...it was widely rumored the specific target market was US...the first version of the gun, introduced in 1993, was actually 40 cal followed shortly by 9mm. The 45 cal version was not introduced until 1995.

1991: HK enters US SOCOM competition against Colt. 1993...the first prototypes for testing were delivered in 45 ACP. HK eventually won and first MK. 23 mod 0 was finally delivered and active in 1996.

The time line given here is to demonstrate that while the pistols are inherently similiar, neither design was specifically intended to fill the role of the other. The Mk. 23 was designed to fill a specific role and utilized design characteristics that were already under development. The USP was actually envisioned before SOCOM testing however I believe that both pistols benefited from the others' development and they most likely evolved side by side. However, the time line also answers the questions with facts. When were pistols delivered and what was delivered first? USP circa 1993 with the Mk 23 not being delivered until 1996 HOWEVER the prototypes were being delivered in 1993 so perhaps that is debatable? In terms of actual production, the answer is still USP as the 1993 delivery of prototype pistols was merely for testing.

As you can also see in the time line of events...the original concept of the USP could not have involved any of the requirements for the SOCOM testing as that request would not be made for two years. That being said, again, I think that the Mk 23 and USP eventually benefited each other as the development progressed.

So the answer is not cut and dry or simple. The Mk 23 stepped in and took what was already being developed and it probably changed what was happening to it's sibling as a result but specifically speaking, they were independent concepts that just happened to be being developed at the same time which.

thank you for your answer. basically i support your version. These two guns are very well-weighed and its obvious that folks at heckler&koch did great job.

[Sobriquet]

So what, exactly, is the difference between a Mk 23, a USP full size, and the new HK45 - all in .45 ACP? Ignoring obvious things like barrel length and magazine capacity, of course.

I was under the impression the only difference between a USPf and the HK45 were the ergonomics, ambi controls, and lower capacity (to make the ergonomics possible).

[harrydog]

So what, exactly, is the difference between a Mk 23, a USP full size, and the new HK45 - all in .45 ACP? Ignoring obvious things like barrel length and magazine capacity, of course.

I was under the impression the only difference between a USPf and the HK45 were the ergonomics, ambi controls, and lower capacity (to make the ergonomics possible).
The USPF uses a dual recoil spring assembly while the HK45 uses a single flat spring with a polymer bushing.

[Sobriquet]

Is one system technically superior, or are they just different?