p30 vs. uspc accuracy..

[txtrader]

I have shot the usp fullsize pretty well, but when I shot the compact it was noticeably harder to get the groupings of the fullsize, especially at 15+ yards. I have had my eyes set on the p30, but without one to rent I'm hesitant because the sight radius is between the uspf and compact. So my question is about the comparable accuracy of the p30 vs the uspc because if its more similar to the compact than the fullsize I might have to consider the hk45. What do you guys think? Primary purpose is the gun is range, no carry.

[cmdrdredd]

It's a refined, more comfortable, and overall IMO better USPc

[H&K 4 LIFE]

Get the P30 and you will love it! The more comfortable and customizeable grip is worth it alone over the USP. For me, the P30 takes all the great things about the USP and makes them even better.

If it's a range only gun it's a no brainer, 9mm is cheaper then .45.

[txtrader]

I here you on the ammo, but I'd like an accurate gun so I can nail those bullseye from 25yards. I'm sure thats more practice than gun. But I'd like to have as much advantage as possible. I'd consider a usp expert for $800 but not $1400.

[cmdrdredd]

I here you on the ammo, but I'd like an accurate gun so I can nail those bullseye from 25yards. I'm sure thats more practice than gun. But I'd like to have as much advantage as possible. I'd consider a usp expert for $800 but not $1400.

Longer barrel is inherently more accurate.

[NiceHK]

I too am seeking the same HK txtrader. This is exactly the reason for my anticipation, the p30L becoming available in the U.S. HK is working on a match trigger for the p30. This means the P30L will also have the match trigger option. I predict the p30L with a match trigger to be a dream to shoot. This is pretty obvious to most as many members are eagerly awaiting it's debut.

[Volodymyr]

Accuracy is 99.9% shooter. Even a piece of crap gun, as long as it is consistent, can result in great accuracy with an experienced shooter behind it. Often times the more comfortable the pistol is, the better you will shoot it... something to keep in mind is some people find the P30 to be more comfortable. I haven't played with the back straps on any HK but I have on other firearms and found it to not be to my taste at all.

Additionally comfortable fit isn't always the answer, nor is accuracy necessarily. Like I always say, I shot the SAXD better than anything else, probably hits #1 for comfortable for me as well- but the features of the USP convinced me to go that direction. If the features of the P30 can force you to make the move so be it, otherwise don't worry about it.

Shot what you like, and what you find comfortable.

Longer barrel is inherently more accurate.

I challenge anyone to prove that a longer barrel is going to noticeably improve accuracy at most range lengths. I know on paper it all looks good, but you take the fact that most shootings happen within 10 feet and that barrel size isn't going to make a damn difference. You talk target shooting maybe, but I still think barrel length might be the .01% of accuracy that isn't just based on the shooter.

--

What works for one person isn't going to work exactly the same for another. I shot my dad's duty Glock 22 on and off for some 7 odd years. Picked up an XD and shot it right off the bat better than anything else I had fired. That convinced me to shop around some more (since I had always known I wanted a Glock) and I rented dozens of guns. You put my dad in any shooting scenario he would want his Glock, I'd want my USP (or an XD), some other guy might want his revolver.

The fact is if one gun, one specification (IE 5" barrels), was inherently more accurate or better than another- everyone would own it and there would be no other options.

[robert14]

I challenge anyone to prove that a longer barrel is going to noticeably improve accuracy at most range lengths. I know on paper it all looks good, but you take the fact that most shootings happen within 10 feet and that barrel size isn't going to make a damn difference. You talk target shooting maybe, but I still think barrel length might be the .01% of accuracy that isn't just based on the shooter.

The fact is if one gun, one specification (IE 5" barrels), was inherently more accurate or better than another- everyone would own it and there would be no other options.
More often than not, a longer sight radius comes with the longer barrel. With the average shooter, this can help with their accuracy. At 10 feet, will it be a fantastic difference, probably not....

[HKIWB]

I took my P30 and USP .40c to the range last night for a little shoot-out. It had been a while since I took out the .40c because I was noticably more accurate with the P30 at first. When I first got it, I was getting 3-4 inch groups with the P30 at 15.5 yards versus 5-6 inch groups with the .40c. I've had 4-5 inch groups with the P30 at 25 yards, and couldn't come anywhere near that with the .40c (I've been shooting pistols for less than a year, but hit a round count of 35K last night). The longer sight radius and better grip of the P30 makes all the difference for me. I also shot it better than the full-size USP 9mm and every other full-size 9mm I've tried.

I bought the P30 as a range pistol to complement my 40c, and it has done just that. After months of not shooting my .40c, my groups were about the same with both pistols. I was a little down on the .40 prior to last night, but now I'm diggin it again.

[NiceHK]

Accuracy is 99.9% shooter. Even a piece of crap gun, as long as it is consistent, can result in great accuracy with an experienced shooter behind it. Often times the more comfortable the pistol is, the better you will shoot it... something to keep in mind is some people find the P30 to be more comfortable. I haven't played with the back straps on any HK but I have on other firearms and found it to not be to my taste at all.

Additionally comfortable fit isn't always the answer, nor is accuracy necessarily. Like I always say, I shot the SAXD better than anything else, probably hits #1 for comfortable for me as well- but the features of the USP convinced me to go that direction. If the features of the P30 can force you to make the move so be it, otherwise don't worry about it.

Shot what you like, and what you find comfortable.



I challenge anyone to prove that a longer barrel is going to noticeably improve accuracy at most range lengths. I know on paper it all looks good, but you take the fact that most shootings happen within 10 feet and that barrel size isn't going to make a damn difference. You talk target shooting maybe, but I still think barrel length might be the .01% of accuracy that isn't just based on the shooter.

--

What works for one person isn't going to work exactly the same for another. I shot my dad's duty Glock 22 on and off for some 7 odd years. Picked up an XD and shot it right off the bat better than anything else I had fired. That convinced me to shop around some more (since I had always known I wanted a Glock) and I rented dozens of guns. You put my dad in any shooting scenario he would want his Glock, I'd want my USP (or an XD), some other guy might want his revolver.

The fact is if one gun, one specification (IE 5" barrels), was inherently more accurate or better than another- everyone would own it and there would be no other options.


This is semantics. I challenge you to prove that a longer barrel doesn't help with improved accuracy over a shorter barrel for a shooter. You can run an experiment with control groups over a 6 month trial with 100 shooters. On a serious note if barrel length has nothing to do with giving the shooter an improved ability for better accuracy why is it that a match model has a longer barrel? For show? The key word is ability. It's obvious that a shooter has to be able to shoot a gun accurately. Just b/c a specific car should hit a certain lap time consistently on track X doesn't mean that anyone handed the keys will do it. The thread discussion was never about shooters with longer barrels automatically being able to shoot more accurately just b/c they are using a longer barrel.

[sigmundsauer]

This is semantics. I challenge you to prove that a longer barrel doesn't help with improved accuracy over a shorter barrel for a shooter. You can run an experiment with control groups over a 6 month trial with 100 shooters. On a serious note if barrel length has nothing to do with giving the shooter an improved ability for better accuracy why is it that a match model has a longer barrel? For show? The key word is ability. It's obvious that a shooter has to be able to shoot a gun accurately. Just b/c a specific car should hit a certain lap time consistently on track X doesn't mean that anyone handed the keys will do it. The thread discussion was never about shooters with longer barrels automatically being able to shoot more accurately just b/c they are using a longer barrel.

I shot a SIG P239 extensively that was just as accurate as a SIG P210. I'm not talking combat accuracy here. 1" groups at 25 yards.

Mechanical accuracy in a pistol has far more to with consistent lock up than any other factor. Sight radius is helpful but I have many other anecdotes of compact pistols shooting equally well as their full size bretheren. Shooter skill is a major factor. Many just simply incorrectly conclude it was the pistol, or the sight radius, or the longer barrel that accounted for the accuracy difference -- rarely the case. The pistol is either technically more mechanically accurate (or not), or its the shooter.

Tim

[steelshooter]

As others have said, sight radius is helpful but not critical or even that important. If you shoot well you will shoot well with a short and long barrel. A longer barrel does help with velocity though which is why you either want or 4 or 5 inch barrel or to shoot something designed for short barrels such as the special version of Gold dots. or shoot +P to impart the xtra velocity you need.

[NiceHK]

What affects me personally the most is trigger. Found that out when I shot the p30 and hk45 side by side. My groups were tighter with the .45. I am very interested in HK's development of the match trigger for the p30. Also if I shot 124 grain in the p30 I bet I would have grouped tighter as many have commented how the p30 loves 124g.

[steelshooter]

I would also like a match trigger for the P30 although really mine is fine. I shoot 115grain practice ammo and it is very accurate but I'll have to see how 124gr does. Can't imagine it being that much different.

What I really need, ok really want, is a P30L with match trigger!

[NiceHK]

What I really need, ok really want, is a P30L with match trigger!

You said it brother! HK are you listening?

[BytorJr]

NiceHK,

I seriously doubt HK is listening. Heck, I was more or less told LEM for the P30 was a done deal....so where is it?!!!!!! To think they'd do a Match trigger..well, if they do one, maybe they'll do an LEM too. Heck, HK doesn't even have stock parts for the P30 (witness the magazine spring ordeal). They really need to step up to the plate IMO. Now donning Nomex underwear, suit, balaclava, and helmet :).

[steelshooter]

They don't seem to be in any rush to make the American consumer happy but maybe they are waiting to see how well the P30 and HK 45 sell. Plus once they are made in the U.S. perhaps things will be better. I hope they keep the same quality once they are made here.

[NiceHK]

Bytor,

I hear ya. Civilian sales are obviously not #1 priority for them. Agency contracts around the world is where the big bucks are at and what gets things moving. Hopefully they land a nice contract in the states to open up the flood gates.

[NiceHK]

They don't seem to be in any rush to make the American consumer happy but maybe they are waiting to see how well the P30 and HK 45 sell. Plus once they are made in the U.S. perhaps things will be better. I hope they keep the same quality once they are made here.


I am willing to bet that the quality will not be distinguishable from the German counter parts. Wouldn't make sense to me if they were.

[Scooter]

Longer barrel by itself doesn't make the gun more accurate. What results from having the longer barrel does affect accuracy. Longer barrel adds more weight to the gun. Heavier guns are much easier to shoot accurately than a light gun. Heavy guns don't move as much from slight inputs from the shooter.

Often times, increase barrel length will result in longer sight radius due to the longer slide used. A longer sight radius gives you more visual feedback from slight movements to the sights. Compare a P7 with a USP. Pretty much the same barrel length but the USP has almost 1" longer sight radius. P7 is very accurate mechanically, but trying to hold essentially a compact gun to shoot accurately at 50+ yards becomes much harder.

[steelshooter]

I would expect HK to esnure they were the same quality but they would not be the first to see quality suffer. Look at Sig these days.

I am willing to bet that the quality will not be distinguishable from the German counter parts. Wouldn't make sense to me if they were.

[steelshooter]

It would have to be one really long barrel to make a weight difference and one really heavy pistol to have the effect you describe.

Longer barrel by itself doesn't make the gun more accurate. What results from having the longer barrel does affect accuracy. Longer barrel adds more weight to the gun. Heavier guns are much easier to shoot accurately than a light gun. Heavy guns don't move as much from slight inputs from the shooter.

[Scooter]

It would have to be one really long barrel to make a weight difference and one really heavy pistol to have the effect you describe.

Longer barrels typically also include a longer slide which is where the weight is at.

A few ounces on a gun DOES make a big difference on the way the gun will perform. This is why you see bullseye shooters running with 6" 1911's and also heavy slides. 45+ ounces for a gun is fairly common. This is the reason why the USP Match has a huge weight stuck on the gun. On the other end of the spectrum, Steel Challenge guns will be in the low 30's because having a stable gun is not as important as having a light weight gun that is faster to swing from target to target.

[NiceHK]

I would expect HK to esnure they were the same quality but they would not be the first to see quality suffer. Look at Sig these days.

Yes Sig is not where they use to be. However we are talking about a very specific thing. Sig degraded as a whole and not specifically just at one satellite manufacturing facility. We are talking about quality diminishing b/c of change in manufacturing location with a certain pool of products being manufactured at that facility. New personnel and new management away from the watchful eye of headquarters could be an issue but a satellite facility is nothing new for them. What I want to point out is that HK has satellite fabrication facilities around the world and it is a part of their business model to open manufacturing facilities within a highly servicing region. Being that this is nothing new for HK and business as usual it is my prediction that they will churn out their products at HK quality levels that we have all grown to enjoy and expect.