HK45 Article in AUG SWAT Magazine

[Spartan hoplite]

The AUGust SWAT magazine had a small picture of the HK45 on the corner of the cover and had a review of the gun.

The author seemed to like it but had a lot of people fire it and found that about a third of them got their trigger fingers wacked during recoil by the trigger groves in the bottom of the trigger guard. I havent fired one yet so I cant say. He also had some gunsmith smooth down the grooves but the gun still snapped into his finger.

The author did say that he fired over a thousand rounds through the gun without a problem.

[dtheman]

?

Haven't had that happen to me, I kind of confused as to how that happens.

[Spartan hoplite]

There are groves in the inside bottom of the trigger guard that the tip of the trigger travels in. During recoil it comes up and hits some people in the finger.

I have never fired the gun so I cant say. But I have handled the gun and noticed the groves.

[reaper8154]

Not a problem for me.

[HKCHEF]

No, never happened.

[GPD45]

Never happened to me either. Picture wise, is it a good article? It has been awhile since a gun mag had Hk(s). I always see that ugly S&W M&P pistol.


GPD45

[HKCHEF]

Most of the time the articles in those mags are just based on the money invested for advertising. They aren't going to rip on a gun that spends 100,000 a year in advertising. At least this is my theory on why S&W is on every page.

[loupav]

I read that article in SWAT and I didn't like it. On the cover it asks "HK45 a 1911 for the 21st century?" But the author does not answer or make an attempt to answer. He just thinks its a great military pistol period.

I've read better gun articles, especially in that magazine.

[H&K 4 LIFE]

You'd have to have your finger posistioned pretty low on the trigger to have that happen! :eek:

[Sobriquet]

Most of the time the articles in those mags are just based on the money invested for advertising. They aren't going to rip on a gun that spends 100,000 a year in advertising. At least this is my theory on why S&W is on every page.

That's why I refuse to read or buy Motor Trend. They have a bias for American cars.

As for the trigger... my finger's never had an issue with it. I keep it ON the trigger and don't drag it along the finger guard, though.

[rohardi]

I read that in swat too. i thought to my self "What is he altking about I dont have any problems with my triger finger????"

[Viktor]

Sounds like they need to harden up!!! :)

Viktor

[NoJoy]

I read the article as well. The author seemed to like the gun with good over all impressions minus the occational trigger sting. I read an article about the Beretta 90-two 40 cal in a S.W.A.T. mag last year and it did not go so well for that gun. But to me, this mag is one of the few that gives an un-biased view of pistols and rifles that people are interested in buying.

[Sobriquet]

Is there a copy of the article online? Besides the trigger thing, did they like it?

[NoJoy]

Overall, yes they liked the gun. The author did mention that he thought the gun was more designed for those wearing gloves. This was his opinion of course.

[carboncycles]

Hmm, sounds like the author needs to stop getting manicures and maybe he won't have this problem?

[Savior 6]

When at the range with a friend, he tried the HK45 and had a similar complaint. He also stated later while inspecting the pistol that at this same spot the trigger touches the mag release, depressing it slightly

[quikz]

Hmmm......I really am confused by all these alleged trigger irritation type 'issues'. I see how the trigger guard is MUCH thicker on a HK45 than on a P2000. But I have had no probs with any issues remotely similar to these and have shot alot thru Hk pistols (not just my own).

Maybe alot of the shooters are pre-conditioned by a specific design (1911, Glock, etc....) and did not adapt properly to the Hk design(???)

Not saying complaints are not valid, just that it is pretty darn hard to imagine the prolly really weird grip one may need to assume to self-inflict those hand irritation probs.

I'll shoot some more to find out. ;)

[cmdrdredd]

Even Larry Vickers admits that it is a real problem and has worked with a company that does frame work who will remove the irritating part of the trigger guard. It's expensive, turn around is long, and it's not much of a problem for me.

I did have this happen at first, what I found it to be was pulling the trigger with the wrong part of my finger. I was using the middle of the pad of my trigger finger rather than the tip which I chould have done from the start. If you turn your wrist so that you are keeping the barrel of the gun in a perfect line with your arm, then you will be using the right portion of your trigger finger in contact with the trigger.

[mrosamilia]

Never happened to me. Hey take it easy on American made cars. I am a Ford Dealer:eek:

[NiceHK]

No problems for me either. I was surprised to hear LAV talk about this, so it must be an issue for some. However I always scratch my head when I hear about this issue.

[Greg Bell]

Frankly, I have never run into anyone who has the problem. Ed is a good guy though so I am sure it is a legit concern for him personally. Ed is just a regular guy, just like the rest of us. He is entitled to his opinion. And SWAT, well, it does whatever it does. I can't wait for the next issue where they review the latest tactical sunglasses case with molle webbing.

[Huey]

You don't have to have your finger positioned low for it to happen. As the weapon recoils, the grooves come up and swipe at your finger, if you happen to have a large finger and counter the recoil by pressing back into the weapon. The way I see it, it won't happen if your hand rides the gun all the way through the recoil cycle. If, however, your hand "beats" the gun back into firing position...that is to say that you have put a forward and downward pressure on the weapon such that the gun is moving up and back while your hand is moving forward and down (against the recoil), it is very easy to feel the grooves.

You aren't doing anything wrong if you feel it, and you aren't doing anything better if you don't. I have big fingers. I am a large man and can handle recoil well, but the grooves got me whenever I fired the HK45 and often got me when I fired the P30.

I have since had the grooves removed and am a lot happier. Accuracy is the same (4 inch groups rapid fire at 15 yds), but comfort is much better.


I gave the gun to a master pistolsmith and he felt it immediately.

[LCSO264]

I've not noticed this either, and I've put thousands of rounds through both my full size and my compact. I've read the various descriptions of how/why this happens, and I still don't understand?

[Spartan hoplite]

I took a look at the guns in the store. The HK45 Compact does not have the groves in the bottom of the inside of the trigger guard and has a flatter mag release than the HK45. The HK45 compact has a mag release like the P2000 so I dont think it would be a problem. This will probably be what I get.

[reaper8154]

Never happened to me. Hey take it easy on American made cars. I am a Ford Dealer:eek:

How's that 8.7 billion dollar loss workin out for ya?! :eek:

[mrosamilia]

How's that 8.7 billion dollar loss workin out for ya?! :eek:

We'll have to see as they say down the road. I am having as you can imagine a much rougher year this year than last.

[steelshooter]

He says it is a problem for some people. I have big hands and it is not an issue for me with the P30 or HK 45. I was disappointed in the article too. It was OK but could have been much better.

Even Larry Vickers admits that it is a real problem

[steelshooter]

Heh, yeah they have some good articles. Anything from Pat Rogers is going to be good but they are a little to range commando-ish for me.

And SWAT, well, it does whatever it does. I can't wait for the next issue where they review the latest tactical sunglasses case with molle webbing.

[Flyinghunter]

Hey, I drive a ford F150 and shoot a HK45 and neither one rubs me the wrong way.

[steelshooter]

Who could have foreseen the end of big trucks and SUV's? Oh yeah, Toyota and Honda.

We'll have to see as they say down the road. I am having as you can imagine a much rougher year this year than last.

[FChen17213]

Ok, let's not hijack this thread into a car or automotive thread. I also have heard many people have that qualm about the HK45. I've never had that issue myself, but then again, I haven't been shooting my HK45 a lot either. The P30 and other 9mms have been getting the majority of range time......hard times...cheap ammo is good.

[Va_Dinger]

I was not a fan of the article. E. Lawrence has written decent articles before, his "Larry Vickers 1911 Class Review" is a good example but on this one he dropped the ball. Way too much emphasis on the "trigger sting" phenomenon. Regular guys tend to over emphasize things they read about on the Internet and/or gun magazines. Even though Larry is the one who pointed out the issue originally he clearly states only a relatively low percentage of shooters would notice it. Even if it is a problem it should not have taken up so much of the article. I was also not a fan of reading opinions from trainers I do not know. While Jim Smith has unquestionable experience how do I know these other guys could hit a bull in the ass with a snow shovel? Merely being an "Instructor" does mean a thing to me.

In the end Greg is 100% correct in that E. Lawrence is a nice guy, average shooter, who has taken a few high end classes. While he is entitled to his opinions they should not be taken as gospel just because SWAT magazine decided to pay him a couple of hundred dollars for it. Please remember this is the magazine that has printed the "Airsoft M14 Review" article that had photos of the guy shooting it for groups off his back porch, "How To Build a Model-1 AR Kit" article were the guy was shooting it off a bench with like 3-4 optics mounted, The "Philippineno Fighting Stick" article, and so-on. I swore I would not waste my money on another issue but I knew the HK45 article was coming out and did not have the time to just read it while standing in line at the 7-11.

[Blackwind]

For those interested on what LAV had to say on the topic.....


I was actually surprised to read about this so called issue as well. I have not had any issue what so ever with either my P30 or HK45.


http://shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11696

[GARY1911A1]

Thanks for the link Blackwind!

[LCSO264]

I still don't get it, I shoot my HK45 alot, and I've never had this issue... LAV states it affects about 75% of shooters, but just an informal look at the shooters here on HKPRO, and it seems to be opposite, maybe 25% of shooters are affected?

[Va_Dinger]

For those interested on what LAV had to say on the topic.....


I was actually surprised to read about this so called issue as well. I have not had any issue what so ever with either my P30 or HK45.


http://shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11696

Odd

Why link us to "Shadowspear" for an LAV post that he originally made on M4C? Hell, even there link goes to M4C.

[Spartan hoplite]

Even though Larry is the one who pointed out the issue originally he clearly states only a relatively low percentage of shooters would notice it.

According to those links Vickers himself says that it effects 75% of the people who shoot it.

The article says a third.

But not many people here seem to notice it.

It looks like we are dealing with different people in each sample.

I'll probably get the compact one anyway. It doesnt have the groves and is more concealable.

[Va_Dinger]

Yeah, but I wonder about that statement. I will ask him about next time I speak to him.

It seems rather high to me.

[steelshooter]

This is the original link and replies.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13580

If LAV says it I'm not going to dispute it other than to say I must be one of the 25% it does not affect.

[steelshooter]

I thought his Vickers 1911 article was good and he does overstate the trigger issue in proportion to the rest of the article but Vickers did not say a low proportion of users would have this issue. He said 75%.

I was not a fan of the article. E. Lawrence has written decent articles before, his "Larry Vickers 1911 Class Review" is a good example but on this one he dropped the ball. Way too much emphasis on the "trigger sting" phenomenon. Regular guys tend to over emphasize things they read about on the Internet and/or gun magazines. Even though Larry is the one who pointed out the issue originally he clearly states only a relatively low percentage of shooters would notice it. Even if it is a problem it should not have taken up so much of the article. I was also not a fan of reading opinions from trainers I do not know. While Jim Smith has unquestionable experience how do I know these other guys could hit a bull in the ass with a snow shovel? Merely being an "Instructor" does mean a thing to me.

In the end Greg is 100% correct in that E. Lawrence is a nice guy, average shooter, who has taken a few high end classes. While he is entitled to his opinions they should not be taken as gospel just because SWAT magazine decided to pay him a couple of hundred dollars for it. Please remember this is the magazine that has printed the "Airsoft M14 Review" article that had photos of the guy shooting it for groups off his back porch, "How To Build a Model-1 AR Kit" article were the guy was shooting it off a bench with like 3-4 optics mounted, The "Philippineno Fighting Stick" article, and so-on. I swore I would not waste my money on another issue but I knew the HK45 article was coming out and did not have the time to just read it while standing in line at the 7-11.

[steelshooter]

There is a subset of range commando people who go to all the classes which makes them think by associating with the big names they are their buddies and are also qualified to make pronouncements on all sorts of things they know nothing about. If they had any balls they would join the military and be the real deal instead of a wanna be.
By far the majority of firearms "instructors" have no business teaching anyone anything.

[GARY1911A1]

It effects me although I have tried to adjust my grip and trigger finger so that it doesn't. I likely broke my finger some time when I was younger and "played through the pain". Anyway I live in Southern Ohio so to save on shipping I'm going to contact Bowie Tactical to see if I can drop my pistol by. Don't worry for you guys who have sent your pistol in. I'm not going to ask him to do it while I wait. I'm not a line jumper. I'll wait the same as everybody else.

[Chui]

There is a subset of range commando people who go to all the classes which makes them think by associating with the big names they are their buddies and are also qualified to make pronouncements on all sorts of things they know nothing about. If they had any balls they would join the military and be the real deal instead of a wanna be.

By far the majority of firearms "instructors" have no business teaching anyone anything.
How so? Will Uncle Sam teach me to shoot a pistol such that I can compete at the highest level in IDPA??

[steelshooter]

True, I mean if they couldn't teach "tactical" reloads for gun games they probably wouldn't know what else to teach.

[BytorJr]

Whilst I think the article overemphasized the trigger guard issue, I can say one thing. : the guys mentioned in that article for training (and facilities) are the real deal. So, to those who don't think that those instructors mentioned were not worthy of training people need to go research the individuals mentioned. I can assure you they are the real deal.

I do agree that some people take one introductory class and pronounce themselves experts. Heck, I know somebody who took a CHL class and pronounced themselves well prepared to use a handgun...yeah...right.

[steelshooter]

If you are referring to my post I was not referring to that particular facility or the trainers. I know who they are. But there are a whole lot of trainers who have no business being trainers just like any other profession. But in this case teaching someone gun game tricks in the guise of self defense can get people killed. So it's a little more serious.

[BytorJr]

I won't deny that some folks, even with good training like can be had at these facilities, still think they're some type of commando. As long as it's only themselves they get killed, that's fine; but I worry about somebody playing commando and killing an innocent while trying to be a hero. Most every school I've been to emphasizes that you do not want to engage unless you must. House clearing....a no-no unless you have to protect your children or something on the other side of the house. Just board up in as much cover as possible and wait for them.

BTW..it wasn't your comment in particular...I'd just read some of the other comments. I don't think we're in disagreement really...just wordsmithing :).

[Chui]

If you are referring to my post I was not referring to that particular facility or the trainers. I know who they are. But there are a whole lot of trainers who have no business being trainers just like any other profession. But in this case teaching someone gun game tricks in the guise of self defense can get people killed. So it's a little more serious.
Gotcha. And I tend to agree.

[Va_Dinger]

There is a subset of range commando people who go to all the classes which makes them think by associating with the big names they are their buddies and are also qualified to make pronouncements on all sorts of things they know nothing about. If they had any balls they would join the military and be the real deal instead of a wanna be.

So wanting to learn to be proficient with your firearms make someone a "Wanna Be"? What kind of "pronouncements" have you seen recently that were incorrect?

Heads Up: With most of the truly well respected instructors they are teaching techniques far more advanced than anything you will learn in the military - except for the high end Tier 1 units.



By far the majority of firearms "instructors" have no business teaching anyone anything.

I could not agree more more.