Carry difference: USP 45 vs. USPc 45 vs. USPc .40?

[ydaho]

Hi all,

My favorite pistol by far is a usp 45 and I have shot it alot (about 8000 rounds). I carry it often. But I want something smaller for carry but I cant decide between the uspc in .40 or .45.

A few questions:

For those who have carried both or all three, (uspc in 45 and or usp 45 or uspc .40) is there a big difference in they way they carry? The uspc 45 is .8 inches shorter and roughly a little over a tenth of an inch slimmer than the full size 45?

Any reloading issues with the .40 s&w? I have reloaded many thousands of pistol rounds (most of them 45's) and have never had any issues, and I load 45's to the max recommended pressure so as to have consistency with carry and practice loads. I have not yet had a 45 case rupture and have found the 45 to be a very forgiving round to reload. I consider myself an accomplished reloader. I have heard rumors about the 40 s&w not having as good a case life.

Recoil. I have not had that much experience with .40's but from what little I have had they feel no different to me than a full power .45 load, and I am not a person that is afraid of recoil. Still, the uspc .40 is a smallish gun (which is one of the reasons I would pick it over the uspc .45, just as wide but a third of an inch shorter and slightly shorter), and the .40 may really be hard to handle in the smaller gun. What do you think?

It may be fun to experiment with the .40 as far as reloading goes. If it ends up that it is too snappy, I can just down-load it. I also want consistency in shooting charateristics between the usp 45 and which ever smaller gun I choose to carry (the uspc in 45 or 40).

Any suggestions?

(As a side note, I am willing to trade a beretta M9 and Colt SP1 A1 pencil barreled upper for either a uspc 45 or 40.)

[orfeo]

Hi all,

My favorite pistol by far is a usp 45 and I have shot it alot (about 8000 rounds). I carry it often. But I want something smaller for carry but I cant decide between the uspc in .40 or .45.

A few questions:

For those who have carried both or all three, (uspc in 45 and or usp 45 or uspc .40) is there a big difference in they way they carry? The uspc 45 is .8 inches shorter and roughly a little over a tenth of an inch slimmer than the full size 45?

Any reloading issues with the .40 s&w? I have reloaded many thousands of pistol rounds (most of them 45's) and have never had any issues, and I load 45's to the max recommended pressure so as to have consistency with carry and practice loads. I have not yet had a 45 case rupture and have found the 45 to be a very forgiving round to reload. I consider myself an accomplished reloader. I have heard rumors about the 40 s&w not having as good a case life.

Recoil. I have not had that much experience with .40's but from what little I have had they feel no different to me than a full power .45 load, and I am not a person that is afraid of recoil. Still, the uspc .40 is a smallish gun (which is one of the reasons I would pick it over the uspc .45, just as wide but a third of an inch shorter and slightly shorter), and the .40 may really be hard to handle in the smaller gun. What do you think?

It may be fun to experiment with the .40 as far as reloading goes. If it ends up that it is too snappy, I can just down-load it. I also want consistency in shooting charateristics between the usp 45 and which ever smaller gun I choose to carry (the uspc in 45 or 40).

Any suggestions?

(As a side note, I am willing to trade a beretta M9 and Colt SP1 A1 pencil barreled upper for either a uspc 45 or 40.)

I don't think the 40 would be really hard for you to handle in the USPc, it does have more mag capacity than the 45, and the USPc 40 is cheaper to buy than the USPc 45.

That much having been said however, I would strongly recommend the USPc 45 for you:

You are very familiar with reloading the 45, and the 45 is a very forgiving round to reload. The 40 is NOT a very forgiving round to reload, and has very many more KBs associated with it than the 45 does in addition to it's shorter brass-life. Also, obviously you already have the dies, etc. to reload the 45, while you would have to invest in new dies, etc. for the 40. Not to mention that you'll probably end up choosing a different propellant for it too. All of which makes your reloading bench much more complicated and unecessarily more prone to error.

The shooting characteristics of the USPc 45 are much more similar to your USPf 45 than the USPc 40 would be.

The USPc 45 is very concealable. I carry mine most often in an Ace belly-band in the pubic position. I can run around at the lake with no shirt and no shoes, wearing only a pair of gym shorts, and you can't see a thing. Even people who know me have to ask whether I am carrying or not (unless of course they should happen to touch my crotch :) ). The size difference between the USPc 40 and the USPc 45 is not very significant.

Using the same ammo in both pistols is a definite advantage. Lots of people have inadvertantly loaded 40 into their 45 mags. Standardizing is always a plus. It is much less work to only have to build one cartridge for both guns.

Again, I would say stick with the 45, the K.I.S.S. system is most often the best! JMHO :)

[hksafetyfirst]

I'll mostly echo what's above.

I have a USPc .45 and have been carrying it for years. I absolutely love that pistol. It's my baby. I've done IDPA matches with it, taught others to shoot on it ( after starting with a .22lr ) and most importantly, I've trusted my life with it for years.

I am soon to be a new owner of a USPF .45. I won an auction on gunbroker. I've been wanting a fullsize for probably 5 years. I finally had the $$ to buy one.

I think the USPc will be easier to carry since it's a bit smaller. I don't think you'll lose any handling with it. It is a tiny bit wider than the USPc 9mm or .40. I have a galco OWB holster that I use (exec model I believe?) and it's been great.

I can't say I've carried a USPF .45 loaded to the brim, but I would imagine the additional weight would be noticeable. I think you'll love the USPc.

+1 on the .45 ACP being a forgiving reloading round. I don't have a bunch of experience with it, but I've had others with more experience tell me the same.



I also suppose it's worth saying that you should get both and try 'em out :)

You'll love either, I'm very fond of the USPc .45 and didn't care for the USPc .40 as it felt more violent to my precious little hands.

Best of luck!

[Gerber]

Even though I like the .40, I agree with what's been said so far. Carry what you are comfortable shooting. No sense in going back and forth. And don't worry about round count. You go beyond the eight rounds, then in more trouble then you bargained for..

[ydaho]

Thanks guys for the replys. It is true, the uspc 45 makes more logistical sense, in my case.

The heft of the usp full size 45 is not an issue to me, it is its width that makes the gun uncomfortable to carry IWB. Actually, it is not so much its width as it is the blocky muzzle end (my beretta is just as wide but tapers nicely towards the muzzle end). Perhaps I should try some OWB high ride holsters since I wear big Hawaiian style shirts anyways when I carry without a coat on.

Feel free to keep the replys coming.

[ARKAY.357]

It sounds like an USPc .357 SIG might meet all your needs. I carry one on a regular basis, and it's very comfortable. The .357 packs plenty of power and I find the recoil to be between the .40 and .45 calibers, although like yourself I'm not sensitive to recoil. The capacity is also equal to that of the .40S&W.

JAT;

ARKAY

[sureshot45]

I too carry a USPc.45, it conceals well and it is also a blast to shoot. I've shot it and my Sig 220 side by side, and the HK USPc is easier to handle. I haven't shot a USPc40 but one of my in-laws was shooting his XD-40, and then shot my USPc.45, and looked at me dumbfounded as said "there is like no difference in recoil".

[ydaho]

The more I look at it, I don't see that much of a size difference between the uspc 45 and the full size usp 45. I don't know if I am getting $800 worth of difference by buying the compact.

Uspc 45: Length 7.09 Height 5.05 width 1.14 capacity 8 rnds

Usp 45: Length 7.87 Height 5.55 Width 1.26 capacity 12 rnds

I think I am going to try some different carry options for the full size 45 before I go and buy the compact.

[orfeo]

The more I look at it, I don't see that much of a size difference between the uspc 45 and the full size usp 45. I don't know if I am getting $800 worth of difference by buying the compact.

Uspc 45: Length 7.09 Height 5.05 width 1.14 capacity 8 rnds

Usp 45: Length 7.87 Height 5.55 Width 1.26 capacity 12 rnds

I think I am going to try some different carry options for the full size 45 before I go and buy the compact.

You might ask around on here if someone lives near to you, so maybe you could borrow it for a day or two, or at least to handle it and see for yourself. I think there is a significant difference in carryability between the two, although I am not against carrying the fullsize version. Its just that I feel that the more convenient it is to carry, the more likely you will have it on you when you need it.

[ydaho]

I went to Sportsmans today and held both of them (uspc 45 and usp 45) side by side and such... I just don't feel now that I wan't to pay $800 for something that is not that different from what I have already. I think I have made up my mind.

I go out of my way to make sure I can conceal whatever gun I choose to carry, and the USPc 45 wouldn't make me carry in more places.

Now, this is a completely different topic, but, I found my next purchase, a Ruger Vaquero in 45 LC. That would be a fun gun and cartridge to reload and tinker with.

Orfeo, have you had personal experience reloading the .40 S&W?

[orfeo]

. . . Orfeo, have you had personal experience reloading the .40 S&W?

No ydaho. . . I studied upon the idea, but chose not to buy a .40 pistol. I currently reload all my own 9mm and 45 ACP. It is funny that you mention the 45lc. . . I have wanted a Ruger Alaskan .454/45lc as my next gun for quite awhile now, and I would primarily reload and fire the 45lc out of it. But what I would REALLY want is http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116027064 :)

[ydaho]

No ydaho. . . I studied upon the idea, but chose not to buy a .40 pistol. I currently reload all my own 9mm and 45 ACP. It is funny that you mention the 45lc. . . I have wanted a Ruger Alaskan .454/45lc as my next gun for quite awhile now, and I would primarily reload and fire the 45lc out of it. But what I would REALLY want is http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116027064 :)

Orfeo, that gun is awesome! I love the beefy size and solid cylinder. I actually just picked up an A. Uberti (beretta) .45 lc peacemaker clone with the 5 5/8 in barrel. I picked it up from sportsmans for $300 new, it was on clearance. It is all "tactical" black, so now I have a tactical peacemaker. I should honestly etch the word "Tactical" on it just for laughs.

I haven't been able to find any brass to reload and the only ammo I can find in my whole town is some really expensive corbon personal defense ammo. Idaho Falls is currently going through a gun/ammo panic and thus the gun stores are picked clean of everyting, especially reloading components. So, I haven't shot it yet but am looking forward to.

I reload 9's and 45's as well. They are both very forgiving rounds to reload and they have excellent case life. One thing that amazes me is how much powder I can fit into a 9mm case and still have it be under normal pressure. For most hot powders (bullseye, hp 38, wst, or other somewhat hot pistol powders), I can safely put almost as much powder in a standard pressure 9mm as I can in a standard pressure .45 (of course the 9mm runs at higher pressures). The macho argument about the .45 vs. 9mm is just that, macho. I can see why the military went with the 9mm becasue you can actually hold more powder in your hand than with a .45, and powder is directly related to power. If you carry a good hollowpoint 9, with say 17 rounds in your mag, you have got alot of powder in your hands, more so than a 9 round 1911.

If the macho guys follow the same reasoning, "a bigger bullet leaves a bigger hole and thus puts people down better" then a .45 would be more deadly than a .223, but that is not the case. The .223 has 26 grns of powder to the .45's 6 or 7 grns (ganted, they are different powders but that doesn't change the strength of my argument).

Sorry I had to puke this, I was just so annoyed with the gun salesman behind the counter I met this past few days. I overheard him telling some unknowledgable person the macho argument, and that our troops shoot people with the beretta multiple times and they don't stop sort of thing (it is probably becasue they are missing thier target). People who reload 9's and 45's can see why the 9 is a more efficient cartridge. And anyone who starts telling me the macho 9 vs. 45 argument, I immediately know that everything they know about guns is parroted from those cheesy sanctimonious gun mag writers, the ones who wine when they have to shoot something other than a 1911.

I think I am done now.

[MrShipwreck]

I have a USPc9, and I just got a USPc in 45 yesterday. I wanted a 45 carry gun.

The full size USP has a grip too big for my hands. The USPc's grip is a little smaller. That's why I like it.

[orfeo]

. . . It is all "tactical" black, so now I have a tactical peacemaker. I should honestly etch the word "Tactical" on it just for laughs. . .

That's funny about the "tactical" Peacemaker :)

Actually, I do prefer the 45 for self defense over the 9mm though. . .

. . . but that's not to say I think the 9mm is not an effective round. Even a 22lr can be a very effective round. A friend of mine's body was found in a field behind JFK airport in New York (where I am from) back in the 80's with a 22lr in the back of his head. He ran afoul of the wrong kind of playmates.

If ya think about it, a big hat-pin, in the right place, will kill just as surely as a bowie-knife. . . Shot-placement is king. . . hands down.

But at the same time, I personally would prefer a 45 over the 9mm for civilian SD. . . I guess you could say that if we were going to throw the bullets at each other, I would prefer to be throwing 230 gr 45s than 124 or even 147 gr 9s. Rarely is a peaceable civilian like me going to be in an extended gun battle where the extra mag capacity would be a factor, and my feeling is that if I had only enough chance to fire one or two rounds, the 45 would suit me better. Plus, I tend to shoot the 45 more accurately than I do the 9mm. Don't get me wrong, I'm not into the caliber war thing, I would NOT want to be shot with ANY caliber bullet. . . I just have an affinity for the 45. :)

[ydaho]

That's funny about the "tactical" Peacemaker :)

Actually, I do prefer the 45 for self defense over the 9mm though. . .

. . . but that's not to say I think the 9mm is not an effective round. Even a 22lr can be a very effective round. A friend of mine's body was found in a field behind JFK airport in New York (where I am from) back in the 80's with a 22lr in the back of his head. He ran afoul of the wrong kind of playmates.

If ya think about it, a big hat-pin, in the right place, will kill just as surely as a bowie-knife. . . Shot-placement is king. . . hands down.

But at the same time, I personally would prefer a 45 over the 9mm for civilian SD. . . I guess you could say that if we were going to throw the bullets at each other, I would prefer to be throwing 230 gr 45s than 124 or even 147 gr 9s. Rarely is a peaceable civilian like me going to be in an extended gun battle where the extra mag capacity would be a factor, and my feeling is that if I had only enough chance to fire one or two rounds, the 45 would suit me better. Plus, I tend to shoot the 45 more accurately than I do the 9mm. Don't get me wrong, I'm not into the caliber war thing, I would NOT want to be shot with ANY caliber bullet. . . I just have an affinity for the 45. :)

That was one thing I forgot to say, I shoot the .45 better than I do a 9. That is why I prefer to carry the usp 45. It is hands down, my most accurate and fast first shot gun. From a draw, it indexes and its sights center effortlessly.

I agree, it is shot placement that matters most.

An awesome collection of the 9mm vs. .45 ACP arguments is contained on Stephen Camps website: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/FAQ%20on%20Defense%20Guns%20and%20Stopping%20Power .htm. That is just one of his pages and there are many other pages on the same topic in his FAQ section.