Question about 9mm USP Hammer

[swiss_seth]

The USP has three positions

1. down all the way
2. half cocked
3. cocked and locked

Is is safe to have it in postion number 1?

When you use the decocker it lowers it to postion 2 however I prefer starting to fire from postion 1 when using the DA pull.

1. down all the way:

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/swiss_seth/P1010215.jpg



2. half cocked:


http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/swiss_seth/P1010216.jpg

[ARKAY.357]

I believe that with the hammer in position (1) you would bypass the FPB, and if the hammer was struck hard enough, even with the safety on, it would produce an AD.
There really is no advantage to firing in DA with the hammer in that position.
If you feel that the hammer protrudes too much, a bobbed hammer could always be installed.
I might be wrong in this assesment, in which case someone more qualified will be along with better info.

ARKAY

[swiss_seth]

I believe that with the hammer in position (1) you would bypass the FPB, and if the hammer was struck hard enough, even with the safety on, it would produce an AD.
There really is no advantage to firing in DA with the hammer in that position.
If you feel that the hammer protrudes too much, a bobbed hammer could always be installed.
I might be wrong in this assesment, in which case someone more qualified will be along with better info.

ARKAY
]

I feel the same way about the possibility of an AD, the only reason I prefer it in pos. 1 is because there is no movement from that pos.

[ARKAY.357]

]

I feel the same way about the possibility of an AD, the only reason I prefer it in pos. 1 is because there is no movement from that pos.

Not sure what you meant by that. The hammer has to come back in order to fall back on the FP in DA mode, doesn't it?

ARKAY

[praetorien]

Not sure what you meant by that. The hammer has to come back in order to fall back on the FP in DA mode, doesn't it?

ARKAY

No, there is a halfway point where the hammer rests on a catch. It does this when you use the decocking lever. And you can still pull the trigger in DA from this position. It just doesn't feel as smooth compared to when the hammer is all the way down in the firing pin.

[praetorien]

I believe that with the hammer in position (1) you would bypass the FPB, and if the hammer was struck hard enough, even with the safety on, it would produce an AD.
There really is no advantage to firing in DA with the hammer in that position.
If you feel that the hammer protrudes too much, a bobbed hammer could always be installed.
I might be wrong in this assesment, in which case someone more qualified will be along with better info.

ARKAY

There is still a firing pin block when the hammer is in position 1. It is inside the slide and is only released by pulling the trigger. If you take the slide off you can see it towards the back, looks like a quarter circle. When you look down at your frame you see a switch that pushes upward when you pull the trigger.
You can test this safety feature by removing the slide and look at pics.

Here is your Firing Pin. Stick the slide release lever into this gently. The firing pin will not move forward enough to strike the primer.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii179/praetorien/back.jpg

Here is the Firing Pin Block. This is what you will push to make the pin go forward. Just use your thumb to push it.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii179/praetorien/under.jpg

Just to clarify pushing in the firing pin.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii179/praetorien/insert.jpg

[praetorien]

That should make you confident to keep the USP in position 1. The firing pin cannot go forward unless the trigger is pulled all the way and pushes the firing pin block up. If the USP is dropped on it's muzzle, it is mechanically impossible to get an accidental discharge. DO NOT TRY THAT. I have seen articles where it has been tested. But as we all know s**t happens right?

[ARKAY.357]

No, there is a halfway point where the hammer rests on a catch. It does this when you use the decocking lever. And you can still pull the trigger in DA from this position. It just doesn't feel as smooth compared to when the hammer is all the way down in the firing pin.


When the gun is decocked, the hammer still has to come back and then fall on the firing pin. This by definition is DA. The OP stated that he leaves the hammer resting on the FP, or position (1). His concept of position (2) would be decocked as he indicates.

BTW, thanks for the tutorial, but owning 4 HK's myself, I'm adequately aware of the various parts of the weapon.

Regards;

ARKAY

[Kochaholic]

"I believe that with the hammer in position (1) you would bypass the FPB, and if the hammer was struck hard enough, even with the safety on, it would produce an AD".

Wrong, the block is in place arresting the firing pins movement at all times except when the trigger is pulled back.

"When the gun is decocked, the hammer still has to come back and then fall on the firing pin".

The hammer does not contact the firing pin when it is decocked.

"BTW, thanks for the tutorial, but owning 4 HK's myself, I'm adequately aware of the various parts of the weapon".


Now the next step is to learn how they work together.

When the trigger is pulled and the hammer is all the way down, "position one" or "back" the firing pin is not in contact with the primer. The firing pin is spring loaded and needs the full impact of the hammer to give it momentum imparting the required reach to the primer. Because of this, the HK pistol is very safe and probably would not fire even if the FPB was missing, the hammer was all the way forward, and dropped on a hard surface. Now of course only a fool would trust injury or loss of life to this scenario or a probably metaphor.

While the pistol should be perfectly safe carried with the hammer all the way forward, a missing or malfunctioning (not likely) FPB would leave the question of would it be possible for a blow from say, dropping the weapon out of a three story building on its hammer (which if a bobbed hammer does not protrude beyond the slide anyways) would create enough momentum to the firing pin for it to reach the primer. Remember in this position, with the hammer all the way down contacting the FP, energy from an impact to the hammer may still have an effect. This energy is imparted like the steel ball bearings on a string that sit on many desk tops. For this to happen, the trigger would have to be in the pulled position, or the FPB missing or defective. The firing pin would also have to overcome its spring which is holding it back and still have enough energy remaining to indent the primer sufficiently enough to detonate it.

The HK pistol is very safe but an argument could be made over additional safety especially with a spurred hammer, if when carried with the hammer down it is left in the partially cocked position. Then again, if you have a pistol with a missing / defective FPB along with a spurred hammer, you might not want to throw it out a three story building window.:)

[swiss_seth]

okay, well that pretty much reaffirms my carrying the gun with the hammer all the way down.

this makes for a nice long pull and no dead space where there is a few mm's of movement

thx

[ARKAY.357]

Kochaholic wrote: "The hammer does not contact the firing pin when it is decocked".


Your grasp of the obvious is truly amazing.


No one said that the hammer contacts the firing pin when the gun is decocked. You need to go back and read the OP's original statement.

ARKAY

[Kochaholic]

Kochaholic wrote: "The hammer does not contact the firing pin when it is decocked".


Your grasp of the obvious is truly amazing.


No one said that the hammer contacts the firing pin when the gun is decocked. You need to go back and read the OP's original statement.

ARKAY

Your grasp of how the pistol works is as bad as your own reading and comprehension. You were the one who said:"When the gun is decocked, the hammer still has to come back and then fall on the firing pin".

Further more you said:"I believe that with the hammer in position (1) you would bypass the FPB, and if the hammer was struck hard enough, even with the safety on, it would produce an AD". Which is also wrong.

You do not know how the weapon works and you also failed miserably on putting your thoughts in print, although your arrogance came across just fine. Sometimes its hard to face when you don't know what your talking about, but at least you will always have a home on the internet.

You go back and read, the op knows what time it is, more information was given with the intention of reassuring him and possibly helping others, but you remain in the dark.

"I might be wrong in this assessment, in which case someone more qualified will be along with"

WEll at least you got that right;)

[ARKAY.357]

Your grasp of how the pistol works is as bad as your own reading and comprehension. You were the one who said:"When the gun is decocked, the hammer still has to come back and then fall on the firing pin".

Further more you said:"I believe that with the hammer in position (1) you would bypass the FPB, and if the hammer was struck hard enough, even with the safety on, it would produce an AD". Which is also wrong.

You do not know how the weapon works and you also failed miserably on putting your thoughts in print, although your arrogance came across just fine. Sometimes its hard to face when you don't know what your talking about, but at least you will always have a home on the internet.

You go back and read, the op knows what time it is, more information was given with the intention of reassuring him and possibly helping others, but you remain in the dark.

"I might be wrong in this assessment, in which case someone more qualified will be along with"

WEll at least you got that right;)

When the OP stated: " The only reason I prefer it in position 1 is because there is no movement from that pos". Care to explain what that means? My reply to his statement was "When the gun is decocked, the hammer still has to come back to fall on the firing pin". What part of that don't you understand?

If you examin the pics, the first one shows the hammer at full rest. The second picture shows the gun decocked. It must be safe to assume that pos.3 is fully cocked. No matter how you view it, the hammer has to cycle in DA in order for the gun to be fired.

You might want to re-examin your own reading and comprehension skills.

BTW, your self esteem in thinking that YOU are more qualified is laughable at best.

Have a good one...

ARKAY

[Kochaholic]

Your attempts to cloud the issue is not working. Fact, you do not understand the system fully, fact you cannot illustrate a thought (even a poorly founded one) fact, you will leave this thread more qualified now that you know how the FPB works. Just can't stand to be corrected can you? Your laughable, now come back and admit you can't let it go, and while you are here, admit you did not understand the FPB function on your 4 HK's or prove me wrong. My self esteem is backed by my confidence which comes from my knowledge. Three characteristics you do not posses.:2500000:

[swiss_seth]

lol

yo y'all, cant we all just get along...lol

At this point of people quoting what I said I dont even know what I meant...lol

and one more lol for good measure

[.45ACP]

I actually MUCH prefer to carry with the hammer at half-cock. It makes for a much more manageable DA first shot. I have a KF date code USP from before they added the half cock position and improved the trigger a bit and it has a monster pull in DA mode compared to newer USPs DA pull from the half cock position.

[swiss_seth]

I actually MUCH prefer to carry with the hammer at half-cock. It makes for a much more manageable DA first shot. I have a KF date code USP from before they added the half cock position and improved the trigger a bit and it has a monster pull in DA mode compared to newer USPs DA pull from the half cock position.

actually now that I think of it my prefered carry is cocked and locked with the safety on

I do the same with my 1911

It just makes sense when I open carry

[MaverickH1]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend the "position 1", fully decocked carry. While yes, you still have the firing pin block there as a safety, you don't have the added impact safety of the catch.

On top of that, the only way to get it fully decocked is to pull the trigger and drop the hammer. While that's something that can be done, it bypasses the firing pin block safety and the catch safety, and doing that on a live round is not the smartest thing in the world. The reason that a decocker exists is because that method of decocking has proven to be unsafe.

If you think neither of those issues hold any merit and you think getting rid of the 1 mm or so of creep when in the half-cocked position is worth the risk, then you have a different set of priorities than I :)

[ARKAY.357]

Your attempts to cloud the issue is not working. Fact, you do not understand the system fully, fact you cannot illustrate a thought (even a poorly founded one) fact, you will leave this thread more qualified now that you know how the FPB works. Just can't stand to be corrected can you? Your laughable, now come back and admit you can't let it go, and while you are here, admit you did not understand the FPB function on your 4 HK's or prove me wrong. My self esteem is backed by my confidence which comes from my knowledge. Three characteristics you do not posses.:2500000:


Do you also use the board name "Montana Bighorn" by any chance? The only retort I have for you Napoleon is TRY TO GET OVER YOURSELF!

It's been just exhilarating exchanging ideas with you. Having said that, life is just too short to waste any more of it on you.

Have a good life....or, try to get one;

ARKAY

[Kochaholic]

Do you also use the board name "Montana Bighorn" by any chance? The only retort I have for you Napoleon is TRY TO GET OVER YOURSELF!

It's been just exhilarating exchanging ideas with you. Having said that, life is just too short to waste any more of it on you.

Have a good life....or, try to get one;

ARKAY

yes, it has been fun. Not exhilarating, but fun. As for the exchange, what exchange? You have learned how your weapon works and all I learned was that you don't handle being wrong well and you are arrogant and full of yourself. Life is short, so try not to stay stupid and make the best of it. Oh, you have said goodbye twice now, are you gone yet?

[04TAC40]

Mav H1 Given it to ya :72:
#1 rule... Safety 1st!

[swiss_seth]

Mav H1 Given it to ya :72:
#1 rule... Safety 1st!

Like I say, I carry cocked at locked

but I hear what you are saying MavH1

[JoeyBones]

Kochaholic:
You are simply not understanding what ARKAY is trying to say. He is saying regardless of whether the hammer is all the way forward or at half-cock (during which time the FPB is still blocking the FP from impacting the primer - Yes, we ALL understand that much, thanks), the hammer still has to be engaged/actuated by pulling the trigger, which, in turn, will pull the hammer back to full-cock, and then subsequently (immediately) drop it on the (now unimpeded by the FPB, since the trigger is all the way back) firing pin. Gun goes bang...
Get it?
Somehow I think not...
I don't even have a dog in this fight, except that I can't stand when someone (in this case, YOU) misunderstands someone else's valid explanation/point, and then grandstands under utterly false and mistaken pretenses...
Geez...
To the OP: If this were me, I'd carry decocked (half-cock), not hammer full-forward... The negligible gain in trigger pull performance is just not worth it to me, to the point that I would manually bypass a mechanism that was purposefully and thoughtfully engineered to add another layer of safety to an admittedly already quite safe design.

Regards,
-Bones

[Kochaholic]

Kochaholic:
You are simply not understanding what ARKAY is trying to say. He is saying regardless of whether the hammer is all the way forward or at half-cock (during which time the FPB is still blocking the FP from impacting the primer - Yes, we ALL understand that much, thanks), the hammer still has to be engaged/actuated by pulling the trigger, which, in turn, will pull the hammer back to full-cock, and then subsequently (immediately) drop it on the (now unimpeded by the FPB, since the trigger is all the way back) firing pin. Gun goes bang...
Get it?
Somehow I think not...
I don't even have a dog in this fight, except that I can't stand when someone (in this case, YOU) misunderstands someone else's valid explanation/point, and then grandstands under utterly false and mistaken pretenses...
Geez...
To the OP: If this were me, I'd carry decocked (half-cock), not hammer full-forward... The negligible gain in trigger pull performance is just not worth it to me, to the point that I would manually bypass a mechanism that was purposefully and thoughtfully engineered to add another layer of safety to an admittedly already quite safe design.

Regards,
-Bones

Sounds like you do have a dog in this case, and he's not doing so well. ARKAY's explanation point had nothing to do with the original posters question. He was mistaken when he commented about how the FPB functions and when he was corrected for no other reason then to answer the original posters question, his ego could not take it. As far as "we all get it" that may be the case now but it was not before this post went on way to long. Utterly false and mistaken pretenses? Hardly.

Nobody asked you, how you would carry it. Nothing wrong with stating your thoughts, but the question of how it is carried and how the weapon gets to be in what the original poster referred to as position 1 is an issue you brought up. How the FPB works is an issue ARKAY brought up.

For those of you who cannot follow a thread:

The USP has three positions

1. down all the way
2. half cocked
3. cocked and locked

Is is safe to have it in postion number 1?

ARKAY: I believe that with the hammer in position (1) you would bypass the FPB, and if the hammer was struck hard enough, even with the safety on, it would produce an AD.

KOCHAHOLIC: Wrong, the block is in place arresting the firing pins movement at all times except when the trigger is pulled back.

Now, what is it that you don't get?

I can't stand when someone (in this case, YOU) misunderstands someone else's valid explanation/point. It was not valid and you are going to have to live with it.

You know what I can't stand? Someone who has no dog in a fight trying to start up a dead issue.

ARKAY, I wish you the best of luck.

[JoeyBones]

"You know what I can't stand? Someone who has no dog in a fight trying to start up a dead issue."

Well, actually I was trying to clarify what I perceived to be arkay's assertion. But hey, take it as you will; I couldn't care less... -shrugs-
:D
Regards,
-Bones

[swiss_seth]

lol

guys give it up

really...there are more important things to fight about...

like the garbage weapons that Coharies makes. we talk about them in the clone section and once you get on one side or the other the arguments are grrreat!

lol