Which HK to buy for police duty?

[ruff1]

I went to the gun store the other day. I am currently searching for an hk to replace my glock 22 for my duty weapon. I was originally going to go with a p2000 lem. But I also checked out the hk45, hk uspc .45 and the p30. Could they make this decision any harder? So I'm asking those of you in law enforcement or anyone who would care to give their opinion which hk pistol I should get for patrol duty. I'm leaning towards the uspc .45 but am concerned about it only holding 8 rounds. I didn't care for the uspf .45. The one that felt the most comfortable was the p30 but i wished it came in a larger caliber and with an lem. I'm a little nervous about going to a da/sa trigger after carrying the glock for so long. So any advice would be great. Thanks in advance. If it isn't obvious enough, this would be my first hk. Thanks in advance.

[Gerber]

Probably a stupid question, but your agency is okay with you carrying the HK I assume. Correct?

With that out of the way, have you had a chance to fire any of the weapons? Second, you will probably get a lot of recomendations for the HK45 and you can have the LEM trigger installed to give you a closer feel to the Glock. It will hold 10 rounds.

Third, ff it were me, I would get the USPc .40 LEM (4.5LB) or the P2000 .40 LEM (4.5LB). Both will hold 12 rounds per mag.

Good luck.

[WildCat87]

The P30 holds 15+1 rounds of 9mm and is one of the most ergonomic pistols ever, so I'd give that a strong consideration for duty. Also, check out these threads from a fellow LEO...

My P30 saved my life on Monday!! (http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70814)
Just bought another P30! (http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75986)

[HKCHEF]

If your concerned with round count, I recommend the combat competition for its 18+1 capacity and awesome trigger. If not I would go with the HK45.

[orfeo]

. . . Third, ff it were me, I would get the USPc .40 LEM (4.5LB) or the P2000 .40 LEM (4.5LB). Both will hold 12 rounds per mag. . .

For LE duty, I agree 100%, and I would ALSO strongly recommend you hold a USPf 40 which I would have recommended to you first. The USPf 40 feels a bit different than the USPf 45. . . you might like it. :)

[bnsutton]

HK45 or compact with Surefire X300.

[piebiter]

For what its worth, I'd go with the USPc .45. I prefer the feel of the USP over the P30 as well as the .45 caliber over a 9mm.

[bhale187]

I guess it most depends on your caliber preference. HK45 LEM, USPF 40 LEM, or P30L LEM. I suggst LEM because it is going to take alot more retraining to get used to a DA/SA or a cocked and locked after carrying a Glock. Going from a Glock to a LEM will just feel like you got an awesome trigger job done on the glock (as far as trigger pull is concerned anyway).

I don't understand why anyone would suggest a compact as a patrol officers duty gun, I can see it for a detective or supervisory position, but it doesn't make sense to me to be carrying a ccw weapon when you aren't trying to hide it, and comfort is out the window with a duty belt on anyway.

[E.W.]

For me it would be the P2000 .40 LEM

Overall, I think its a great balance in size, ergos, caliber, capacity and trigger.

[MJCOL21]

My Department is in the process of switching over to the HK45 for patrol and HK45c for the detectives.

[bhale187]

My Department is in the process of switching over to the HK45 for patrol and HK45c for the detectives.
If only i could get so lucky, I'm stuck with the Glock 22

[bhale187]

That's surprising to hear your P30 out shoots the P30L. As for comfort, most duty belts are loaded with spare mags, handcuffs, asp or full baton, pepper spray and even tasers-the difference of a tenth or a quarter pound is undetectible when you are wearing a 10lbs belt.

BTW, the P30 is a fine duty weapon, and I wouldn't call it a compact, I was reffering to compacts made for ccw like the USPc and the HK45c.

[ruff1]

My Department is in the process of switching over to the HK45 for patrol and HK45c for the detectives.

What weapon is your dept. switching from? How do you and the guys/ladies, feel about the switch? If you could pick for yourself, which hk would you choose?

[ruff1]

Thanks WildCat87 for the thread info. I really liked the p30, probably the best. I just wished it came in a larger caliber. But as the thread info you provided shows, the 9mm round is very effective too. I guess I'm just thinking in terms of which caliber I would rather be shot with. Thanks for the response.

[ruff1]

For what its worth, I'd go with the USPc .45. I prefer the feel of the USP over the P30 as well as the .45 caliber over a 9mm.


While I loved the way the P30 felt in my hand, I really did like the USPc .45 and also prefer the .45 or .40 calibers over the 9mm. Do you know if 10 round mags are available for the USPc .45?

[spyder1439]

your duty weapon should be a gun that is comfortable for you since you will be using it theoretically when your life or someone elses is in danger. full size weapons are usually reccomended b/c you're not hiding it and they usually carry the most rounds. the only advantage to a compact gun is that you get a little less weight and you can possibly carry your duty weapon as a ccw off duty. other wise thats why they make the compacts to be the ccw version of the duty weapon so you are keeping the same controls/weapon model for muscle memory. for your situation you are not going to find an hk that can match the glock 22 in weight and mag capacity while staying in the 40 cal. but if you dont mind giving up a couple rounds and adding minor weight then i would reccomend a uspf 40 or the hk45 in the lem trigger if you want to keep it familiar.

[igcsteve]

+1 to bhale187, the P2000 LEM in 40 S&W would be an easy transition from the Glock 22 although keep in mind it is a 12 round magazine instead of the 15 in the Glock. As an aside, the local police here carry .40 cal. but it has to be one of the four Glocks that are made in that caliber.

[MJCOL21]

What weapon is your dept. switching from? How do you and the guys/ladies, feel about the switch? If you could pick for yourself, which hk would you choose?

We are switching from the P7M8. I think most are very happy. I know that I am. I had input on the switch so I would choose the HK45.

[KILO1-1]

P30 gets my vote.

[handk]

+1 to bhale187, the P2000 LEM in 40 S&W would be an easy transition from the Glock 22 although keep in mind it is a 12 round magazine instead of the 15 in the Glock. As an aside, the local police here carry .40 cal. but it has to be one of the four Glocks that are made in that caliber.

HKCHEF mentioned the Combat Comp. this also comes in a 40cal, and it's capacity is 16+1 with Jet Funnel

[NiceHK]

That's surprising to hear your P30 out shoots the P30L.

Who said this?

[josHK]

I currently have the P2000 .40 and just recently got a HK 45. Both are amazing firearms but, I prefer the HK 45.

[bhale187]

Who said this?

Omegaman (I think that was it), but his post has since been deleted.

[RMA]

I am not in LE but my buddy at the gym is & he is "grandfathered" in & carries a USP Full in 45cal. Absolutely loves it. If your dept allows it I would suggest that or spend the extra $200 and go with the new HK45.

[654Boomer]

Greetings ruff1,

. . . Do you know if 10 round mags are available for the USPc .45?

Yes . . . there are HK 10 round magazines available for the USP 45c, but they do have a large "boot" on the bottom of the magazine. They actually feel pretty good in my opinion. Also . . . the 10 round HK45 magazines can be used in the both the HK45c and USP 45c, but will extend a little from the magazine well. I believe that the magazine bodies of both the HK45c 10 round and HK45 10 round magazines are the same. The difference being the rubber magazine extension found on the HK45c/USP 45c 10 round magazine. The 10 round HK45c "boot" kind of reminds me of the boots that "Herman Munster" wore on that '60s television series.

Note that the 12 round USP .45 ACP magazines WILL NOT work with either the HK45, HK45c, or USP 45c, although the 10 round HK45 and both the 8 round and 10 round HK45c magazines will work with the USP 45c and USP 45c Tactical. Confused yet?

Here are a couple links with some good photos (eye candy) of the HK45c 10 round magazines that may clarify things:

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76050

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84002

[Cadillac Johnson]

P2000 .40

Best blend of size, weight, and capacity.

It's also been around for a while, which would make me feel a little better being a duty weapon. The P30/HK45 has been very reliable so far, but IMO I would wait a couple years before I was convinced all the 'kinks' have been worked out.

[ruff1]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my question. You all have been a lot of help.

[orfeo]

. . . I suggest LEM because it is going to take alot more retraining to get used to a DA/SA or a cocked and locked after carrying a Glock. Going from a Glock to a LEM will just feel like you got an awesome trigger job done on the glock (as far as trigger pull is concerned anyway).

I don't understand why anyone would suggest a compact as a patrol officers duty gun, I can see it for a detective or supervisory position, but it doesn't make sense to me to be carrying a ccw weapon when you aren't trying to hide it, and comfort is out the window with a duty belt on anyway.

I agree 1000%

AND. . . I would strongly suggest you try a USP fullsize 40 in your hand. It will be a great combination of price-point compared to many of the other choices; it can be had with the LEM trigger or the LEM can be easily added to a non-LEM (you DEFINITELY want that); it carries more rounds; the larger size and dual-spring recoil system will tame the snappy 40 better than the compacts will; it is an old, tried and true original USP design that has been around in hard duty since the beginning of the first USPs.

I personally prefer and carry a USPc 45 for concealed civilian self defense. BUT. . . I don't expect to ever be in a situation that might call for more than a few shots. As an LE duty weapon, I would want at least a 40 caliber (not to say anything against the 9mm club) in a fullsize weapon designed for open-carry le and military. It comes as a 13-rounder, but as another poster said, you can also add a jet funnel if you want more capacity (16+1 I think). And I'm SURE you'll be carrying an extra mag or two on your belt also. :)

[bhale187]

Yes, USP 40 is definately a good choice too. It was the first gun I carried as an LEO, and I have never had any issues with it after 10 years.

You can also use a xgrip that was sold on HKPro about a year ago to use the 16rd mags without adding the jet funnel. That allows for use of both 16 and 13 round mags, and saves the cost of adding the jet funnel.

[NWTS_Mike]

I carry the USP .45 Fullsize on duty. Cocked and locked in a level III holster.

[nwusp45]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my question. You all have been a lot of help.

Did I miss something, what did you choose?

[ruff1]

Did I miss something, what did you choose?


Still deciding. I'm leaning towards the P2000 .40 lem. I also really like the USPc .45. I still have to check them out somemore at the gun store before I decide. Also I won't have the finances to purchess the weapon untill end of Jan. or early Feb. But I'll be sure to let everyone know. Thanks again.

[azpilot06]

If you just -have- to go HK for on-duty (BTDT), go with a USP. Less expensive investment, and it's the only HK option that will give you a remotely decent chance of finding good quality duty-gear in the near future. Other models, which haven't been as extensively deployed into LE, are extremely hit-and-miss when it comes to holster support for on and off duty. USP mags are semi-plentiful (by HK standards), and USP was really the only HK handgun in the US market that was extensively marketed for LE.

For me personally, if I can't get a SSIII 070 (or nowadays, a Raptor) for a gun - I won't carry it on-duty.

[ruff1]

For me personally, if I can't get a SSIII 070 (or nowadays, a Raptor) for a gun - I won't carry it on-duty.

I agree with the retention holsters. I did see a thread just today with pic of a p2000 in a Blackhawk lev 3 duty holster. Also I have a TLR-1 light and it works better with the P2000 than the usp but I really like them both which is why I'm kinda glad I have some time think about it before I can afford to buy it.

[DevildogJay]

I switched over from a Glock 17 to an HK Usp 40 about 3 years ago. I have the LEM trigger and the Jet-Funnel set up, complete with the 16 round mags. I love the gun, and with that trigger it is a dream to shoot. The gun itself is completely reliable, however I continue to have the problematic failure to lock back on an empty mag that several USP users have experienced. Higher power springs are only a temp fix, so beware. I hope this helps.

[skorittnig]

I went to the gun store the other day. I am currently searching for an hk to replace my glock 22 for my duty weapon. I was originally going to go with a p2000 lem. But I also checked out the hk45, hk uspc .45 and the p30. Could they make this decision any harder? So I'm asking those of you in law enforcement or anyone who would care to give their opinion which hk pistol I should get for patrol duty. I'm leaning towards the uspc .45 but am concerned about it only holding 8 rounds. I didn't care for the uspf .45. The one that felt the most comfortable was the p30 but i wished it came in a larger caliber and with an lem. I'm a little nervous about going to a da/sa trigger after carrying the glock for so long. So any advice would be great. Thanks in advance. If it isn't obvious enough, this would be my first hk. Thanks in advance.



You are going to get literally one hundred different answers from people on here. Many of us are civilians who will never use this gun in the way that you may be called to do. I suggest you hold (and hopefully fire) each of these guns and choose the one that is most ergonomically correct for YOUR hands- afterall, you could be using this gun to save your life one day.

Best of luck to you.

skorittnig

[Porkie]

Dear ruff: I would suggest the USPf .40 S&W. The one I have is set at 6.5#. I am not a peace officer though. Which means I carry concealed.

My take on the question is that the old style USPs with the LEM trigger provides advantages not available in the newer stuff. For example, the reset on the LEM in those is less than half of the P2000 style, about 3mm. It is marvelously quick. That settled the 2000 style over at my house. I don’t know if the lock work in HKXX style is the same or different. Anyway, coming from a Glock that most probably would be an issue for you as well.

I also don’t care about ‘fits my hand.’ I have medium sized hands and am able to use the two USPfs that I have, a .45 and a .40/.357SIG, without issues. Or a SIG P229 or a Glock 33 for that matter.

As to the compact models, I rejected them all as to not being sufficiently compact to matter. The full size is compact itself; except for thickness, the USPf .45 is the size of a Colts Commander and lighter than any of them; the .40 S&W is smaller. As to the SK I rejected it for the reset and that it has no particular advantage over the Glock sub compact models.

You are probably aware there is no such thing as a USPf .357SIG. The factory announced it and then withdrew it several years ago. If you decide to try one, send me a PM and I’ll let you know how to do it. Mine has run over 1000 rounds uneventfully as a .357. I carry it most days.

Regards, Porkie

[link80reid]

I would get a USP .40 with jet funnel. Can't argue with 16+1. Then you could always get the .357sig barrel for it if the department allows that cal.

[2nd2none]

1st choice-HK45 w/LEM
2nd choice-P2000 .40 LEM
Sucks my dept. is pro Glock, we carry the G37, wish we had HK's, my dept. is too cheap, and doesn't pick the best when it comes to our equipment(most of the time)...

[Sobriquet]

Decide on a caliber. That'll narrow your choices.

Decide whether you want a LEM or cocked and locked. That'll narrow your choices further.

Then pick the one with the highest capacity that's comfortable for your hand. That'd be how I'd do it, anyway.

I'd probably end up with a USP full-size in 9mm or .45. With you being used to a Glock, I'd probably say go with a LEM.

[OfcrJosh462]

I'm issued the HK USP .40F for duty. I carry it in a Safariland 6280-1930 and on it rides a X300.

[RyuNoKai]

Mark 23. Hardchrome the slide, for poop factor. Tango's don't talk crap. they just crap.

[NightFighter]

I carry the USP .45f converted to LEM by dept. HK armorer. I have long fingers so it fits me well. It is a big and stable gun, but it sucks for off duty. For off duty, I have the P2000sk LEM in 9mm.

The P2000 LEM in .40 is a great all-in-one gun that is great for duty and small enough for concealment off.

The USP LEM conversion does have one very short and sweet reset. I have the normal springs and it is just right for a duty weapon. I like not having to decock to reholster when teaching as a firearms instructor.

[Phalanx1]

I carry the HK45 full size. Insanely accurate.

[ruff1]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I ordered the P2000 in .40. LEM. This is the one I just kept going back to and the first one that got me interested in HK to begin with so I decided first instincts are usually the correct ones. I just got it and can't wait shoot it. Thanks again to everyone.

P.S. I just hope I don't suck at shooting it.

[Ronnie77]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I ordered the P2000 in .40. LEM. This is the one I just kept going back to and the first one that got me interested in HK to begin with so I decided first instincts are usually the correct ones. I just got it and can't wait shoot it. Thanks again to everyone.

P.S. I just hope I don't suck at shooting it.

You made a fine choice.

It took me a little while to get used to my P30's LEM trigger, but I am fine with it now.
You will get used to it.

Be safe,

[LCSO264]

I carry an HK45 in condition 1 (cocked and locked) and an HK45c as my secondary/back up weapon. I really like both handguns, while assigned to Det's I carried the HK45c, and kept my full size handy along with my rifle.

Now, that being said, these two handguns really work for me. What I recomend you do is find someplace or someone who has all the handguns you mentioned available to shoot. Set aside a day (or at least a good portion of a day) and shoot all of them. Then pick the handgun which you are the most comfortable with, the one you can constantly/intuitively shoot well. Like I said, for me the HK45 is the right handgun, you may find that a USP .40, P2000 .40, P30, etc... is the right handgun for you. When it comes to a handgun your life will at depend on, make sure you have a handgun you can consistently and intuitively shoot well.

Also, you can get both the HK45 and HK45c converted to LEM (or light LEM), and I understand the P30 just became available in LEM in, albeit in limit numbers currently...

Good luck


PS: the guy in New Jersey who's dept is switching to the HK45, that is excellent. The more dept's that purchase large numbers of the HK45 the better. Now get all the guys you work with to get on Safariland about releasing their new ALS (model 6360 I think) for the HK45 and the HK45 with a light.. Also, hop onto Crimson Traces web page and get all the guys you work with to request a laser for the HK45 and HK45c (although, I think they have something in the works currently)....

[Sobriquet]

Carry it in good health.

[spyder1439]

i wish my department would switch over to HK's.

[Cliff]

If only i could get so lucky, I'm stuck with the Glock 22

Just what I was thinking.

For years I carried a USP in .45 for a duty weapon and a .45 USPc for off duty use. I was very happy with the combo.

Then my agency bought and forced us to carry Glocks. On and off duty.

[spyder1439]

although i prefer hk over glock - glock does have one advantage. if you are issued the g22 you have the option of carrying the g23 or g27 off duty which basically is the same gun as the g22 only smaller. the controls, grip angle, caliber, and trigger are identical. you can even use the g22 mags in either of the smaller guns. so if the defecation hits the ventilation muscle memory kicks in. you dont have to worry about the mag release being in a differnt spot, or accidentally hitting the slide release in an attempt to decock.

i wish hk would produce a weapon system like glock did so we could carry a hk 45/45c/45sc on and off duty and everything is the same. i guess the closest thing is the p2000 series.

[MJCOL21]

PS: the guy in New Jersey who's dept is switching to the HK45, that is excellent. The more dept's that purchase large numbers of the HK45 the better. Now get all the guys you work with to get on Safariland about releasing their new ALS (model 6360 I think) for the HK45 and the HK45 with a light.. Also, hop onto Crimson Traces web page and get all the guys you work with to request a laser for the HK45 and HK45c (although, I think they have something in the works currently)....

Yeah I will do that. Getting the holsters from Safariland has been the problem so far. The guns are sitting and waiting for us and we are waiting on safariland but I just got good news friday that our holsters will be here in about 20 days! I def want to mount a light on mine so find that holster will be the next project.

[CPshooter]

Gosh..I own a USP .40 Compact (V1) and a P2000sk (9mm LEM). I love them both, but for police duty I don't think either are ideal. IMHO, you should be looking at the USP .40 (fullsize), the P30 (maybe the P30L), or the HK45. I think capacity in your case is more important than the round you choose to shoot. Since shot placement is more important, a higher capacity gun might save your life one day. I recommend the LEM trigger for whatever gun you decide to go with. Good luck!

[BytorJr]

NightFighter,

You say that the USP series has a much shorter reset. Is this comparing USP LEM to P2000/P30 LEM directly? I've asked this question before, to one of our most knowledgeable guys on here who also has both series, and he measured not much difference at all. I'm surprised to hear what I'm guessing is an implication the USP is much shorter than the P2000/P30. Or, by some chance due you have the Match LEM thing going on?

Certainly I am not saying you don't know what your talking about, it just troubles me there seems to be so much discrepancy in this issue. To me, I think it's a make or break thing. As much as I think the P2000/P30 series is a vast improvement in ergonomics, trigger reset is very important IMO. To be honest, I really am puzzled though as to where reset fits in the grand scheme - or am I way over thinking this problem...trigger reset vs raw ergonomics?

Thanks.

[ruff1]

NightFighter,

You say that the USP series has a much shorter reset. Is this comparing USP LEM to P2000/P30 LEM directly? I've asked this question before, to one of our most knowledgeable guys on here who also has both series, and he measured not much difference at all. I'm surprised to hear what I'm guessing is an implication the USP is much shorter than the P2000/P30. Or, by some chance due you have the Match LEM thing going on?

Certainly I am not saying you don't know what your talking about, it just troubles me there seems to be so much discrepancy in this issue. To me, I think it's a make or break thing. As much as I think the P2000/P30 series is a vast improvement in ergonomics, trigger reset is very important IMO. To be honest, I really am puzzled though as to where reset fits in the grand scheme - or am I way over thinking this problem...trigger reset vs raw ergonomics?

Thanks.

I don't know if this helps at all, but I just put the first 150 rounds though my new P2k .40 lem yesterday. I'm transisioning from of glock 22 which I'm told has a shorter reset than the p2k lem. I didn't really notice much of a difference when trying to fire a little faster(double taps). I'm not as informed as much as some of the others on this forum and I don't know what the difference is on the usp lem and the p2k lem. I chose the p2k mostly for how GREAT it felt in my hand and how on target it was when brought up when preparing to fire. Hope this helps a little.

[BytorJr]

Having shot a P2Ksk with LEM and a USPc V1, I can say that there is definitely a difference between reset and crispness between those two; however, I don't have any experience with a USPc in LEM. I tend to shoot the USP better than the SK though.

Unfortunately, while there are a few dealers here with HKs, there is NO range! :(.