First day out with my new HK report: info about roll pins

[Brian1979]

Well I took my new 45uspc out yesterday and it was great. My very first hand gun was a Hk357sig USPc and that was 8 yrs ago. I couldnt shoot it for crap and didnt know much back then so I sold it. From there I have owned 1911's and never shot anything else in 7yrs. I knew I would be able to shoot this gun well since I have confidence in my shooting skills more today then back then so I once again went back to the HK.

Yesterday was a good day and I shot 232 of my reloads and 16 Gold Dots all 230grn with no malfunctions. Accuracy was dead nuts and coming from tunned 1911 triggers that break like glass at 4.5lbs I can say I am proud of myself for doing so well. I had switched out the sights to Ameriglo's and installed them myslef since I knew I could do a better job and take my time then sending it off anywhere. I really made sure the sights were dead center in the slide and took my time doing so. The gun confirmed this on the paper since all shots were spot on for windage and at 15yrds I needed a 6'oclock hold to POI on the bullseye.

Because I plan to carry this gun CCW in DA I used the decocker for almost all my shots yesterday. That means I had at least 175rnds in DA and fricking fingers are sore just typing this, lol. To my surprise even in DA at 15yrds I was able to group shots and keep them in a combat accurate group which is a opened and spread hand. I didnt shoot any closer then 15yrds and for my very first time with DA and a new gun I would feel confident in carrying it even right now. However, my holster wont be done for a month or more so I have time to practice with it and really get good.

I took her home and gave her a good bath and look over to check for any problems or broken parts and all was good. I even grew some nuggets and decided to remove the 2 roll pins for the extractor and firing pin block. It was pretty easy to do but tricky as hell getting them back in since you need another set of hands to do it all.

ROLL PINS

To comment on the roll pins many wondered what they are and if they should reuse them or not. The HK rep that I called told me they were standard 3x14mm roll pins and I could get them anywhere so I ordered 200 of them online along with the proper punch.

I compared the Hk pins to the new ones I bought and they dont look the same at all. HK used some sort of bare metal pin that looks like it is a really long strip rolled up into a circle. My new pins are a true roll pin and have an open gap along the side so when they are inserted into a hole the gap will be pinched partially shut. The HK pin is weird looking and I dont see how it could fit very well. If it did it sure cant be reused once removed because they can now be pushed in by hand with minimal pressure. My new pins are coated with carbon so they are black and they fit super tight in the hole so unless the HK pins are ruined from a single use I wouldnt want to use them vs the ones I have now. I have read some people saying their pins "walk" on them a bit and I can now see why. My HK pins even had some crusty crap on them which I think was loctite to hold them in place. In my opinion a proper pin held in by tension would be best.

It was a biatch getting my new pins in but I managed doing so by oddly placing my fingers in strategic places all while holding a punch and working a hammer. The trick was having to depress the firing pin while smacking the pin in place. With the extractor it was a matter of keeping it and the spring depressed while pushing the pin in.

As for the pin position since my new ones have an open slit along them and the HK pin looked like a fruit roll up I was sure to place the slit away from the firing pin. In other words the smooth side of the pin is the part making contact with the firing pin and the slit is facing opposite that. For the extractor pin it didnt matter which way you put the pin since you are aligning the hole in the slide with the hole in the extractor but I positioned the pin in the same direction as the other one.

I wont be taking that down too often since I dont think it is necessary but I did want to see everything with my own 2 eyes and be confident I can maintain my gun properly and not have a mysterious section of the slide that never gets cleaned.

For those of you who have not done this it is easy to do and you can get all the parts at this link:

Just look for pin punches for roll pins in 3mm along with the pins and that is all you need.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#metric-roll-pins/=ewy80

PS after searching that link I found the difference in pins is coiled vs slotted. Coiled is supposed to be better for shock absorption but they dont come in the proper length. I will let you guys know if I have issues with mine but I doubt I will since they fit nice and tight. If so I guess we would need to hit up HK for the proper pin.

[SIGtrarian]

Well I took my new 45uspc out yesterday and it was great. My very first hand gun was a Hk357sig USPc and that was 8 yrs ago. I couldnt shoot it for crap and didnt know much back then so I sold it. From there I have owned 1911's and never shot anything else in 7yrs. I knew I would be able to shoot this gun well since I have confidence in my shooting skills more today then back then so I once again went back to the HK.

Yesterday was a good day and I shot 232 of my reloads and 16 Gold Dots all 230grn with no malfunctions. Accuracy was dead nuts and coming from tunned 1911 triggers that break like glass at 4.5lbs I can say I am proud of myself for doing so well. I had switched out the sights to Ameriglo's and installed them myslef since I knew I could do a better job and take my time then sending it off anywhere. I really made sure the sights were dead center in the slide and took my time doing so. The gun confirmed this on the paper since all shots were spot on for windage and at 15yrds I needed a 6'oclock hold to POI on the bullseye.

Because I plan to carry this gun CCW in DA I used the decocker for almost all my shots yesterday. That means I had at least 175rnds in DA and fricking fingers are sore just typing this, lol. To my surprise even in DA at 15yrds I was able to group shots and keep them in a combat accurate group which is a opened and spread hand. I didnt shoot any closer then 15yrds and for my very first time with DA and a new gun I would feel confident in carrying it even right now. However, my holster wont be done for a month or more so I have time to practice with it and really get good.

I took her home and gave her a good bath and look over to check for any problems or broken parts and all was good. I even grew some nuggets and decided to remove the 2 roll pins for the extractor and firing pin block. It was pretty easy to do but tricky as hell getting them back in since you need another set of hands to do it all.

ROLL PINS

To comment on the roll pins many wondered what they are and if they should reuse them or not. The HK rep that I called told me they were standard 3x14mm roll pins and I could get them anywhere so I ordered 200 of them online along with the proper punch.

I compared the Hk pins to the new ones I bought and they dont look the same at all. HK used some sort of bare metal pin that looks like it is a really long strip rolled up into a circle. My new pins are a true roll pin and have an open gap along the side so when they are inserted into a hole the gap will be pinched partially shut. The HK pin is weird looking and I dont see how it could fit very well. If it did it sure cant be reused once removed because they can now be pushed in by hand with minimal pressure. My new pins are coated with carbon so they are black and they fit super tight in the hole so unless the HK pins are ruined from a single use I wouldnt want to use them vs the ones I have now. I have read some people saying their pins "walk" on them a bit and I can now see why. My HK pins even had some crusty crap on them which I think was loctite to hold them in place. In my opinion a proper pin held in by tension would be best.

It was a biatch getting my new pins in but I managed doing so by oddly placing my fingers in strategic places all while holding a punch and working a hammer. The trick was having to depress the firing pin while smacking the pin in place. With the extractor it was a matter of keeping it and the spring depressed while pushing the pin in.

As for the pin position since my new ones have an open slit along them and the HK pin looked like a fruit roll up I was sure to place the slit away from the firing pin. In other words the smooth side of the pin is the part making contact with the firing pin and the slit is facing opposite that. For the extractor pin it didnt matter which way you put the pin since you are aligning the hole in the slide with the hole in the extractor but I positioned the pin in the same direction as the other one.

I wont be taking that down too often since I dont think it is necessary but I did want to see everything with my own 2 eyes and be confident I can maintain my gun properly and not have a mysterious section of the slide that never gets cleaned.

For those of you who have not done this it is easy to do and you can get all the parts at this link:

Just look for pin punches for roll pins in 3mm along with the pins and that is all you need.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#metric-roll-pins/=ewy80

PS after searching that link I found the difference in pins is coiled vs slotted. Coiled is supposed to be better for shock absorption but they dont come in the proper length. I will let you guys know if I have issues with mine but I doubt I will since they fit nice and tight. If so I guess we would need to hit up HK for the proper pin.It's my understanding that the pins you removed are true 'roll' pins. The pins you bought are 'compression' or 'tension' pins. I'm sure they have different names, depending on manufacturer. I used to repair machinery, and have never seen a 'roll' pin break, I'm sure it's happened though, but I have seen MANY 'compression' pins break. I have never seen a reason to remove the pins in any of my five USPs or single P2000, even after many thousands of rounds. I might consider it if I could find the correct pins, and I HAVE looked. To clean the slides, I hose them out with aerosol Break Free, let soak, repeat, then blow out with compressed air, or air in a can. I seem to remember Big Bore using a similar procedure for slide cleaning, but might be wrong. I would defer to his knowledge of all things HK before disassembling any of my slides. Also, he might know of a source for the correct pins.

[Brian1979]

The HK pins look to be coiled pins and the ones I used are slotted pins. There is no shear forces on these pins so other then the needed tension there isnt much else they need to do.

Like I said I am from the 1911 world and it is crazy to me that some people dont clean the FP channel. The spring that was in there is a very light fine wire spring unlike the ones in my 1911 which are rated "extra power" and more robust looking. It wouldnt take much to bind up that HK spring and in just 248 rounds there was black residue I was able to remove with a Q-tip. I cant imagine what several thousand rounds would look like with no cleaning.

Well I will get it out again next weekend and shoot it some more and watch the pins but I am sure they aint going anywhere. The HK pins seemed quite fragile in that one use they are trash and provide no more tension. I wont be reusing the pins I have no either but I did insert and remove one to check it and it still had spring to it and could do the job again if in a pinch.

I wonder why the HK rep told me they were standard roll pins and nothing special? I may try to call them again and see what they have to say but my last conversation wasnt very helpful. It was like I had to ask the same question 10 ways to keep him on the phone and give me useful info.

Ps these are the pins I used

http://www.mcmaster.com/#metric-roll-pins/=eyf79

These look like what came out but are either to long or to short (scroll to bottom)
http://www.mcmaster.com/#91612a224/=eyfnl

[SIGtrarian]

Like I said I am from the 1911 world and it is crazy to me that some people dont clean the FP channel.

There are better ways to clean the firing pin channel than unnecessary disassembly. See my first post. Using this method on a different brand of firearm (SIG) for several years, I one day decided to completely strip it. It was a waste of time. Also, I don't trust compression pins, and will not use them, and that's all I have been able to find locally, and I live near a medium-large city. As I said before, I have seen them break, almost like they shatter, into several pieces, in various types of machinery.

[Kochaholic]

I wonder why the HK rep told me they were standard roll pins and nothing special? I may try to call them again and see what they have to say but my last conversation wasnt very helpful. It was like I had to ask the same question 10 ways to keep him on the phone and give me useful info.

Originally you told us you spoke with a tech (did not think you did) now he is a rep. Maybe he said that because he is a rep? Perhaps the rep did not know because no one hardly replaces the pins because tear down is not necessary?

I had to ask the same question 10 ways to keep him on the phone and give me useful info.

Because you did not get the answer you wanted.

Perhaps you should write Helmut Weldle and inform him of the inferior roll pins he chose to use and your brilliant answer to the engineering problem that does not exist. I do wish you luck with your new tactical carbon coated pins though.

[Brian1979]

I dont get the attitude about this as I am just trying to shed some light on these mysterious places on the HK that are forbidden by many. I am not saying the HK pins are inferior and the link I provided states the coil pins are in fact better but I cant find the correct size yet. I did note that those coil pins are clearly good for one time use and nothing more because I can nearly push them in by hand so fresh ones are in order.

I will be on the hunt for the correct roll pins and those of you that care can follow this thread and those of you that call a squirt of CLP in a hole good enough then move on. I am picky when it comes to firearm maintenance and would prefer to have what is needed as far as tools and the proper pin so that I can clean these areas from time to time.

All I can say is that I feel the slotted roll pin is god enough but obviously give all the pins in the world HK picked a coiled one for a reason. The guy I spoke with is just who answered the phone for tech support so I am not sure what he is and I didnt want to "hear any answer". It was you Khocaholic that said the pins may be treated with something and in fact they are not according to this person at HK. What he didnt tell me was that there are different types of roll pins and this is what I discovered on my own. Other then that there is nothing HK about them and they can be bought where ever you find them. I did ask him this several times to not make a mistake about it.

Per the HK blow up sheet these pins are ISO 8748 which are heavy duty coiled type. I will begin trying to locate a source for them and do feel they are what I need not just any old roll pin although I think both work well.

[Brian1979]

Found them here but packed per 1k, lol. Still I think to find them online not many places will sell in less quantity.

http://www.spirol.com/mkt/cart.php?buy=45263

[BytorJr]

I for one am glad Brian has taken the time to do this. I've been worried about cleaning since a friend with a Glock had the firing pin not properly hitting the primer due to stuff in the firing pin channel. Now, do you suppose HK has these parts? I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't. I would like an alternative source of parts, so Brian seems like he is on the right track, if not quite there.

[Brian1979]

Well HK told me they did not have them in stock and may not until Feb which is now this month. If I dont find the exact pin then I may call again but from the response I got the last time it seemed pointless. I heard HK had a great warranty and I know their reputation but the CS is lame.

Apparently these pins are referred to as ISO 8748 which is just a classification of how they grade the pin. It is in the class of heavy duty and it seems to me that this would be sufficient even though the link I last posted does not say they are "ISO 8748".

I am still hunting more places but may just buy the pack of 1k and you guys can PayPal me a couple bucks for some to cover shipping etc. If not that then I can request a quote for a lesser quantity which is another choice. I sure wont be needing 1k of these things, lol.

[SIGtrarian]

I will be on the hunt for the correct roll pins and those of you that care can follow this thread and those of you that call a squirt of CLP in a hole good enough then move on. I am picky when it comes to firearm maintenance and would prefer to have what is needed as far as tools and the proper pin so that I can clean these areas from time to time.
You should re-read my post, since you didn't understand it the first time. That's understandable, though, since the operator's manual clearly states, in bold letters, that the pistol should only be disassembled beyond field stripping by certified HK armorers. They may even have the correct pins. I didn't say a squirt of CLP in a hole is good enough. I was politely trying to point out that detail stripping the slide isn't necessary for proper maintenance. In fact, too much of an unnecessary procedure can do more harm than good. We're not talking about Glocks here,... not that there's anything wrong with that. If you're picky about firearms maintenance you should read the operator's manual. There is an exploded view of all of the parts that shows their relationships to each other, and should clear up any mysteries. Threads like these remind me of why I no longer buy used firearms.

[Brian1979]

People that dont maintain and care for their firearms is why I dont buy used ones but I get your point. Removing a roll pin is not rocket science and it is obvious many around here are scared of this for some reason.

I will keep calling HK and get more answers about this but I think the key is a Heavy Duty coiled roll pin and that should be good. It would be nice if they just stock them but I guess they were out when I called last.

PS the underside of the trigger guard says "warning refer to owners manual" get over it this isnt a big deal. Dont clean yours and keep squirting oil in there when it clearly says not to, good job.:380:

Back on topic

The spirol link has a sample pack you can request free of charge so I will match them up to the Hk pins and see if there is a difference. If not then I will go ahead and order them but I think there isnt much more to this. Its just a silly roll pin that has caused so much drama with Hk owners that I cant understand. In my searching SIG has the same pins and they are commonly sold at places like Top Gun Supply but its just like anything else HK and its hard to find parts or solid info but I think they have a great product so its worth the leg work in research necessary to find things like this.

[SIGtrarian]

I I've been worried about cleaning since a friend with a Glock had the firing pin not properly hitting the primer due to stuff in the firing pin channel.Being striker fired, Glocks are A LOT more sensitive to debris in the firing pin channel, IMO. Fortunately, they are also a lot simpler to detail strip. I strip and clean my Glock slides about every third or fourth range trip, or every thousand rounds or so. That's way more than necessary, but it's so easy, so why not? I don't worry about my HK's and SIG's, since there's nothing like a good strong hammer blow to bust through any debris. I do, however, check the function of the firing pin and firing pin block for smoothness and lack of stickiness when ever I field strip and clean. After many thousands of rounds, and cleaning semi-regularly as I described earlier in the thread, I've never even come close to having a problem.

[Brian1979]

http://www.coiledpin.com/

Read about the pins here. Seems they invented the coil roll pin so I wouldnt doubt if this is where HK gets them from.

Check this out these are them for sure: Look at page 6 it states they are ISO 8748 just like the HK manual.

http://www.spirol.com/library/main_catalogs/cldp_us.pdf

[Brian1979]

Being striker fired, Glocks are A LOT more sensitive to debris in the firing pin channel, IMO. Fortunately, they are also a lot simpler to detail strip. I strip and clean my Glock slides about every third or fourth range trip, or every thousand rounds or so. That's way more than necessary, but it's so easy, so why not? I don't worry about my HK's and SIG's, since there's nothing like a good strong hammer blow to bust through any debris. I do, however, check the function of the firing pin and firing pin block for smoothness and lack of stickiness when ever I field strip and clean. After many thousands of rounds, and cleaning semi-regularly as I described earlier in the thread, I've never even come close to having a problem.

I get it man. But if you ever decide to clean your HK and not wait for a problem then maybe reading all this will be of some help. Obviously I didnt need to clean mine after 250 rounds either but this is something I dont want to remain a mystery so I dove in.

I'll get it figured out here pretty quick and other then finding the exact same pin there isnt much more to this and there isnt wear induced by cleaning these areas. A few taps of a punch and out comes the pin and since they are smooth there is no marring of the holes in the slide. As a matter of fact the finish came off my carbon pins and didnt even scratch the finish on the slide.

[SIGtrarian]

People that dont maintain and care for their firearms is why I dont buy used ones but I get your point. Removing a roll pin is not rocket science and it is obvious many around here are scared of this for some reason.

People who ignore the operator's manual and take things apart when they don't know what they're doing is why I no longer buy used firearms. A used gun that's only dirty is easy to fix. A used gun that's been improperly and unnecessarily taken apart hundreds of times is a totally different story. Enlarged holes, bent springs, incorrectly oriented firing pins when the roll pins are "hammered" back in are just a few things that come to mind.

[SIGtrarian]

I get it man. But if you ever decide to clean your HK and not wait for a problem then maybe reading all this will be of some help. Obviously I didnt need to clean mine after 250 rounds either but this is something I dont want to remain a mystery so I dove in.
You seem to have read only half of what I wrote. Either that, or your having a retention problem. It does make sense though. I now understand why you didn't read the operator's manual. BTW, my guns never go to bed dirty. I'm not even going to ask where you think you read that.

[Brian1979]

You Donkey its 2 roll pins and if you cant figure that much out then I get your method of simplicity. Put it back together correctly and its cake. If anyone has questions on how to do it I can help out and take pictures if you like. Any simple minded idiot could do this so dont be scared and if you have not cleaned your firing pin then try it.

The company I linked to should send me sample pins and I will be buying a pack from them as soon as I confirm the samples are what I need. I will report back my experience with the company and others can make their choice from there.

You are littering my thread so leave your gun dirty and be gone. I dont need to justify why I like to keep my guns clean any more so please just be done with your theories of used firearms and what you think is best for my gun. I dont do things half arse but I understand others do so what works for me wont work for everyone. Send your gun back to HK to pull 2 roll pins and clean it for you since this seems way beyond your mechanical skills, lol.

[Kochaholic]

I dont get the attitude about this as I am just trying to shed some light on these mysterious places on the HK that are forbidden by many.


I did not intend any attitude, but It is only a mystery to you. It seems that you have for some reason focused on these pins with an almost obsessive compulsion. You have proclaimed a problem where one does not exist and then offer the solution. Your not a politician by any chance are you?

It was you Khocaholic that said the pins may be treated with something and in fact they are not according to this person at HK. [/I]

The "person" who started out as a "tech" and then a "rep"? Link is not a tech or a gunsmith, he is a rep and while he is very knowledgeable, he does not posses knowledge in every aspect of HK firearms. HK as a rule does not put techs on the phone to discuss roll pins. I said the pins look like they are finished with something as they are black on top on NIB pistols with exception to the occasionally seen ones that have been driven in from the top, probably from being driven too far in initially from the bottom.


It seems that you want something in your limited capacity to do, something you can feel good about. You also have a history of asking for information only to dispute it, argue about it and pronounce it incorrect. The reaction you are getting from HK speaks for itself. And why it certainly is your prerogative to have an opinion, no one appreciates bad information. When you second guess a manufacturer like HK, you really make yourself look silly, but then, that is just my opinion. You keep bringing up 1911's, this is a good place to focus your gunsmithing as most that are currently offered for sale have lots of attention required. I look forward to your posts after you figure out how to disassemble the internals of your HK. Just wait until you see what mysteries Helmut stored and what he screwed up in there! It will make you forget all about those roll pins.

I agree 100% with SIGtrarian about buying used guns.

[Brian1979]

Great info thanks for the psychology lesson.

So you dont clean your gun either?

Your bad info about coated pins was confirmed by the "rep" so nice job on that one. Perhaps you have some more suggestions about how special a roll pin these must be?

There is no info on this on this forum and I have searched. Therefore I am not refuting info given to me because there is none thus far. A couple of you guys telling me to leave it be and dont clean it is hardly advice let alone good advice. I did read a post from a member that had sent his gun back to HK for cleaning and the "tech" couldnt believe how dirty his FP channel was and how they gun still functioned. Seems like a real stupid idea to clean in there dont it? Maybe that "tech" was an idiot and just cleaned it because he was bored.

Apparently this issue has not been tackled and I am doing nothing more then trying to help so if you have something better to add then "squirt some CLP and air into their" then by all means lets have it.

[Kochaholic]

Brian, you have put a lot of effort into this. On behalf of most here, thank you for proving that "Any simple minded idiot could do this"

"You Donkey its 2 roll pins and if you cant figure that much out"


Brian, that is what we have been trying to tell you, but in a nicer way!

Brian....... You do not have a clue :)

[Brian1979]

My bad did I miss the part where you guys told me what type of roll pin it is and where to get them?

Honestly man I dont want to argue with you guys but one thing is clear in my weeks of research here and that is many people fear this procedure. It is very unclear on how to clean this part of the gun and the culprit seems to be these stupid pins.

One thing to note is that the web site Spirol says the pins can be used over and over but HK and people here agree that they should be replaced. I can confirm that a once time removal of these things made it to where I can insert them nearly all the way by hand which makes me wonder how they can be reused.

As far as the rest of the gun I dont plan to mess with those areas as they are easily cleaned with M-pro7 and oiled just as easily. That looks like a damn nest in there and I aint about to brave that one, lol.

The rest of this gun is amazing in how over engineered it is as all the parts are robust and much stronger then they ever need to be. This is a great thing to see on a gun since you know it will hold true to its reputation. That firing pin is massive and the extractor is one big chunk of steel. My 1911 extractor is so thin and fragile looking and it isnt uncommon to have to replace them some what often.

What I dont understand is the firing pin spring is so thin that such a hard hammer hit must send that sucker flying. Now I can see the benefit in using snap caps because that is one large piece of metal slamming into the rear of the breech face. A stronger spring seems like it should be in order but those at HK must use what works best so I wont question it further.

[Forgetfull]

All the the humorous cat fighting aside, I really appreciate the work you're putting into finding these pins for us.

[Brian1979]

If I buy the 1k roll pins would any of you guys be willing to buy some off me since I dont need all those?

I was thinking like $5 per 100 including shipping then it would make more sense to just buy the things. It is only $27 per 1k but I dont need them and if I can cut the cost down a bit I figure why not. Even if just a few people want some that means my over all cost is minimal and I still have way more then I need. I did email a request to the company for 100-200 piece packs and will see what they have to say. I also asked for a sample of the pin to confirm it is the exact one we need. According to their web site it is a ISO 8748 which means its Heavy Duty and a coiled straight roll pin.

The ones I have in it should work just fine for now but I want to replace those pins with what the gun was designed for just make me sleep better, lol.

Thanks for the kind words and I am glad some people appreciate this.

[SIGtrarian]

You Donkey .Donkey?... Dude, you're weird. I'm going to bed.

[Brian1979]

LOL, you got it then.

besides my roll pin is better then yours!

oh, what?

[Brian1979]

Ok so I just ordered a 1k of them since I am sure they are what I need. I figure if they are packaged in 1k pieces they arent going to separate them to sell at a lesser quantity.

One thing I noticed is that the web site isnt secure when you input your credit info so I used my Discover to be safe. I hardly use that card but when I dont know 100% that the site is secure I dont input my debit card info since its linked to my bank account.

So if anyone wants some of these things just PM me and we can work something out. I sure the heck dont need 1k of them and I aint looking to make a profit but I dont mind helping others either. I figure 100 of these will last a life time since only 3 of these pins are used on the entire gun and they dont need to be removed very often.

[dcondiff]

Detail stripping your HK more frequently than every 1000-1500 rounds is definetly excessive.

[Brian1979]

I agree but figure it should be done about every 1k rounds. I did this initial take down to inspect everything so that I can CCW it in about a month. By then my holster will be ready and I will be confident with the gun.

[orfeo]

Brian1979, I think it is a good thing that you detail-stripped your slide. As you said, it probably wasn't necessary yet, but I still think its perfectly fine that you did it. :)

Now, that much having been said, I will say this: With a little bit of carefulness, you will probably never need to clean your firing-pin channel again. I am assuming (and hoping) you cleaned and lubed the pin and channel, but didn't leave it "wet" with oil. . . Okay, the firing-pin hole is sealed very tightly when the cartridge is ignited, and no debris goes in there upon firing. Some trace amounts of gases, etc. may get in there during cycling, but NOT much. Gunked-up firing-pin channels are mostly caused by two things - careless cleaning of the breach-face, and guys spraying oils in the firing-pin hole. The fact is, the firing-pin channel does not need much (if any) lubrication. It needs to stay clean and "dry". Often, when a person cleans his weapon, he will inadvertantly rub, brush, or scrape fouling INTO the firing-pin hole. Combine this with the spraying or squirting of oils into the firing-pin hole, and you have the perfect gourmet recipe for "Gunk-Stew", a delicious delicacy that is just too rich for the stomach of most working guns. Spray a little of your favorite gun-oil onto the top of an old can in your garage, and let it sit for a year or two. Eventually it will turn thick and sticky after all the thinners have evaporated out of it. . . sort-of like how old gasoline will gum-up and even turn to varnish eventually. :)

1. After you've cleaned and lightly lubed your firing-pin and channel, take extra care NOT to let any fouling get rubbed, brushed, or scraped into the firing-pin hole.

2. Don't ever allow any oils into your firing-pin hole.

If you carefully adhere to this, you will probably never need to clean your firing-pin channel again. However, if you shoot enough ammo to equal paying-off a new Corvette, you might one day in the far, far future want to drive out that infamous coiled roll-pin, and clean the firing-pin channel once more (just for ol' times sake). ;)

[orfeo]

Oh, and one more thing. . .

I am an anal, obsessive, detail-oriented person, and I've found that I sometimes get on people's nerves when I show it too much. . . bickering and other silliness usually follow in short order.

Let's all remember that we are all friends here, and that we are working together to share information on a subject that we are all enthused about. We don't necessarily need to all agree on everything, but we do need to treat one another with kindness and respect.

[Brian1979]

Orfeo, well said!

I agree and I only wanted to get into these areas to check for defects and really know my firearm before making it my CCW. Having realized I used a standard slotted roll pin I will once again break it down and change them out but it is clean and very lightly oiled.

All that I feel is needed on the FP is a patch with a few scattered drops of oil then wipe it down. It leaves just enough behind to protect the metal but shouldnt attract much at all. I will likely go 1-2k rounds between cleanings but since it is such an easy task and I now found the source of the pins I see any issue in keeping up with this.

What I cant understand is how others can spray cleaner or CLP in their and call it good enough. That mentality doesnt sit well with us OCD kids so I had to figure this out and if I helped others along they way then it makes me feel even better in doing it.

Its laughable to think there is some sort of induced wear by removing these stupid pins as they pin gives and the hole doesnt. It would take a whole heck of a lot to ream that hole bigger using a roll pin. Drive a nail in the hole that is larger then 3mm and I can understand there being an issue. Since these coiled pins roll up as you tap them into the hole there is no wear on the slide or the metal it is made of. Not even the finish was scratched and as I stated I used a slotted pin since it was what I had ordered based on my conversation with the HK rep.

PS Spirol emailed me and will have the pins shipped tomorrow so I should have them early next week and will take pics of installation and the actual pin compared to the original HK installed pin. Those who havent caught on I figure I will pay shipping and send out 100 pins for $5 to whom ever thinks this is worth their time and should at some point clean their FP channel. :p None of us should ever need 100 pins and I darn sure dont need a thousand, lol.

[Brian1979]

Ok guys.

I got the Spirol pins today and they are exactly what we need. They even appear to be more Heavy Duty then what came out of the gun. According to the manual they are ISO 8748 which means they are classified as Heavy Duty pins but the ones which came out are much thinner metal.

The new pins I got are nice thick metal all rolled up like a "fruit roll-up" which are called coiled pins. They were 100x's easier to get in since due to their design they can be started by hand and pushed in about 1/4 the way before needing the punch and hammer.

Any way just wanted to clarify to you guys these are the proper pins and after talking to Travis at HK these areas should be detailed every 500 rounds or so. I understand many have not "needed" to clean these areas but I dont "need" to change my oil every 5k miles on synthetic but I still do. :D

I guess I will leave it up to your own choice to go forth and clean these areas. But for those like me that were scared from doing it and had no where to locate the proper pins you should be good to go with the info in this thread.

I am sure you all can gather that my opinion is to clean these parts fairly often and especially on a CCW gun. If its your range gun then what ever but for CCW I wasnt going to leave things be and do the CLP air gun trick to get by.

[Brian1979]

Well here are some pics. I took some shots of the best way I found having only 2 hands while putting in the pins. I also took shots of the stock pins vs the ISO 8748 from Spirol. The difference is significant in the thickness of the metal used to make the coiled pins. According to the manual they should be heavy duty, hence what I ordered, but the stock pins look to be light duty. Perhaps they ran out and used what was on hand but I am not sure.

This hopefully will put some of us at ease knowing how to clean these areas of the gun and making it possible to locate proper pins to do so. Spirol states that you can reuse the pins several times and I think that may be true but I would do this on an individual basis. Meaning if you go to reuse the pin and it goes in too easy with the punch toss it for a new one.

When I installed the pins I oiled them up nice and good for protection and ease of being punched in the holes. I used a roll pin punch which means it just has a point to it so they dont slip off the tinny roll pin head. When I removed the pins I went from the outside to the inside and inserting from the inside to the outside. I did this so I dont mar the finish and so far the holes in the slide look clean and no finish has been scuffed. You will notice that there is a little circular mark in the top of the holes when viewed from the top side. The hole starts larger then is tapered down to be smaller and this is where I drove the pins up to or they would stick out the top.

Initially when I called HK i was told they use a standard roll pin so I bought slotted pins and later realized it wasnt the right style. Those were hell putting in but the coiled ones will start in the holes by hand and go in 1/4 the way in which makes it easier.

The thing about coiled pins is they apparently distribute the load evenly due to their design. What this means to me is they will be held in place best vs a slotted pin and also because of that are much stronger. The fact they coil up as you insert them is perhaps why they can be reused but like I said I would keep an eye on them if doing that.

These pins are carbon steel in a true ISO 8748 with no finish and just oiled from Spirol. Spirol gives options for a finish and stainless but I stuck with a basic pin.

On with the pics:

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6326/dsc02844largeww9.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4741/dsc02845largefu8.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1211/dsc02846largeef2.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5627/dsc02848largepj6.jpg

The Spirol pin is always on the far left and the right 2 are stock
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8200/dsc02837largega4.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3825/dsc02838largejv2.jpg


My thumb holding in the extractor and compressing the spring to align the holes while inserting roll pin.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6035/dsc02840largett6.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5294/dsc02841largeff2.jpg

My pinky is pushing in the FP which is required when starting the pin
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6083/dsc02842largeou4.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2867/dsc02843largezd4.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7080/dsc02839largenz4.jpg

[guillotm]

You could just shoot some compressed air and CLP up in there, lol.

[Brian1979]

You could just shoot some compressed air and CLP up in there, lol.

Dont forget shoving some cotton from a Q-tip in to get out the excess. No worries if some cotton and sludge is left behind because it is an HK.

I also found that placing your index finger over the Firing pin and your mouth over the firing pin hole you can suck really hard to get the CLP back out. If you lift your index finger you can get a C-note if the lips are puckered correctly. It works better then compressed air. Try it out and please post pics of a "how to".

[guillotm]

That's a pretty good one but you will have to post up that thread for me. The pics for that thread might get some of these old guys going.

[BMAG]

Brian1979, Thanks for trying all this out on YOUR pistol. And thanks for enduring the criticism. Lets question one another but do it politely. It should be a debate, not appear as an argument. If you turned out to be entirely wrong then all of us could have learned from you and at your expense. I think you would have been strong enough to admit a mistake. However you pointed out a often overlooked area that should probably be cleaned every xxxx rounds (make your own educated decision here) and especially if you buy a used pistol (which you could end up trusting your life with). It is refreshing that someone can intelligently question a design and investigate/learn more about it. That is how a good design becomes better.

I will PM you to purchase a few pins myself. Over the next 50 years I might need 10 of those! ~Thanks,

[Brian1979]

Brian1979, Thanks for trying all this out on YOUR pistol. And thanks for enduring the criticism. Lets question one another but do it politely. It should be a debate, not appear as an argument. If you turned out to be entirely wrong then all of us could have learned from you and at your expense. I think you would have been strong enough to admit a mistake. However you pointed out a often overlooked area that should probably be cleaned every xxxx rounds (make your own educated decision here) and especially if you buy a used pistol (which you could end up trusting your life with). It is refreshing that someone can intelligently question a design and investigate/learn more about it. That is how a good design becomes better.

I will PM you to purchase a few pins myself. Over the next 50 years I might need 10 of those! ~Thanks,

Yeah man no worries. Those who are interested can follow the thread and those not can keep some CLP and canned air near by, lol.

There is nothing to try out or ruin by knocking out 2 roll pins and putting them back in. The only issue I have ever really seen is where to get the pins to replace them and that is what I seem to have figured out via some research.

Dont worry unless you use a 5mm punch and a hammer you arent going to hurt anything.

[Naturil]

Ok so I just ordered a 1k of them since I am sure they are what I need. I figure if they are packaged in 1k pieces they arent going to separate them to sell at a lesser quantity.

One thing I noticed is that the web site isnt secure when you input your credit info so I used my Discover to be safe. I hardly use that card but when I dont know 100% that the site is secure I dont input my debit card info since its linked to my bank account.

So if anyone wants some of these things just PM me and we can work something out. I sure the heck dont need 1k of them and I aint looking to make a profit but I dont mind helping others either. I figure 100 of these will last a life time since only 3 of these pins are used on the entire gun and they dont need to be removed very often.

Are you on drugs or afflicted by some mental disorder?

[AEnemaBay]

Are you on drugs or afflicted by some mental disorder?

Wow, what brought on this gem of a comment?

[Brian1979]

LOL, and to think these people are gun owners. YIKES!

[AEnemaBay]

LOL, and to think these people are gun owners. YIKES!

Seriously. Oh well, just gotta keep brushing them off I guess.

[Naturil]

Wow, what brought on this gem of a comment?

I read the thread.

[AEnemaBay]

I read the thread.

OK, and...

[Brian1979]

LOL, simple minds speak simple words.

I think it was a great thread and I was glad to help others. I think I must have shipped pins out to about 10 different people. I very much appreciate those who added more money to the cause because I quickly realized I was hosed getting only $5 for 100 pins. I didnt want to make a profit but after the time it took me to mail them and after paying shipping $3 hardly seemed worth doing it again.

Perhaps someone else should buy another 1k and do the same because I am still getting PM's asking for pins. I have been so busy with work I dont really even want to mess with doing it again.

[selleugraj]

So I assume you have no spare pins available? If you do, I'll gladly take 100 off your hands. Thanks for helping others! - John -

[Brian1979]

Yeah man I am down to about 200-300 which I plan to keep for myself.

Sorry about that.:)

[usp9c]

I just ordered a thousand of these myself so those of you who are interested please PM or email me. It sounds like I should ask for about $10 per 100 to cover shipping and time. I'm not sure when they will come in as I just ordered them today but I'll let you folks know.

I am quite sure these are the same thing Brian1979 got from Spirol.
They are Spirol's heavy duty, 3 x 14mm, high carbon steel, plain oiled finish, coil roll pins.
Part Code: (Metric) cldp 3 x 14 H B K

I realize I'm pretty new here but you can contact me on ebay as cc_ebenezer.

If you have any questions please ask, and if you are interested please PM or email me.

Have a great day.

[Brian1979]

You should ask for $10, trust me. :)

It is still a great deal because that will include shipping and we all know HK would send you 6 pins for the same price. Remember you can use these pins over and over according to Spirol but I would inspect them each time and if they feel easy to insert start with fresh ones.

PS you got the right ones. It's good to see more people willing to help out and I was and still am new but $10 is not a huge risk but like myself I am sure most around here are honest people. Just take a pic of the bag of pins once you get them as proof or something.

[HK88]

I kind of found this thread amusing for all the flak it generated. I actually appreciate Brian finding a source for these pins. I have been unable to wrestle an answer from HK for (god knows how long now) as to when they will have some back "in stock" (a mystical and magical realm that apparently will always be mystical and magical in the HK factory). I've been in need for a replacement set of pins for one of my USP projects that is missing it's pins for awhile now.

As a matter of course, whenever I buy a used USP pistol (or any pistol for that matter) I do a complete detail strip of the entire thing. This may be OCD or it may not be depending on the person. I personally like to know *exactly* what I have in my hands, and the *exact* condition of it upon reassembly. Following this guideline has always served me very well. I even do this to my paintball guns after every game!

I usually don't find a issue with the firing pin channel being terribly dirty. The place I usually find clogged with gunk is the area behind the extractor. It seems to be a collection point for carbon deposits and random crud. Granted, I've never had it interfere with my extractor function...

[PattayaPistol]

Thanks guys for one of the most amusing threads I have read here. Despite it getting a little heated it is nice to see the enthusiasm generated and to know you guys are really passionate about your HKs. With that kind of enthusiasm I know there will always be somebody on this forum to help me with my queries, even if to some members my queries will probably appear to be stupid. PP

[usp9c]

My order of roll pins came in today so feel free to contact me if you are interested in any. I have them posted over on the marketplace so feel free to take a look.
WTS: 3x14mm roll pins (http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102850)

Have a great day.

Zechariah