What are the best flats for an MP5 parts kit?
How do these flats compare? http://www.robertrtg.com/mp5flat.html
Best MP5 Flats?
What are the best flats for an MP5 parts kit?
How do these flats compare? http://www.robertrtg.com/mp5flat.html
This topic has been beaten to death......please do a search and you'll find weeks worth of arguments back and forth, etc, etc....
Poor dead horse. He's been beaten so badly... LOL
I think the new LSC ones are supposedly better IIRC. However, I would ask your builder what he prefers to work with (if any) and any past experiences with them.
I don't believe any one flat is better than the other. Each flat has it's pros and cons. Like the other posters have said, ask your builder which they prefer. Any of the four (MKE, LSC, ORF, and SW) can be rolled and made into a functioning gun. It just depends on who does your build, what kind of effort is put into it ,and how much you're willing to spend.
There you go... simple and the truth.Originally Posted by jfk
45acp... turning human garbage into useful fertilizer since 1911
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never point the wrong way.
A dog has the right attitude concerning life. If you can't eat it or screw it, just pee on it and walk away.
Amen!
Eggzachary.
A good builder can make any of them look good and work fine. That's what you need to worry about - who builds it. Not so much which flat they use.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I asked a bunch of the builders before I had mine built who’s flat should I buy and they overwhelmingly recommend LSC. They said it is well worth the extra cost to get a product that is right from the beginning, because they do not need to go and fix all kinds of little problems, it comes out right every time. So they save a lot of time in the build and end up with a better product.
I am a little anal so I wanted to see for myself so I got one of each flat to compare I quickly found out why the builders recommend the LSC flats over the rest their are major differences between them:
The RF5 flats: The mag well is not formed correctly it does not have the right angle between the front of the gun and were the mag well pops out. Also the stampings are not very defined in the steal, they look like they did not use enough pressure on the stamps. The area on the side of the flat were the rails hit the curved portion of the flat there is a huge hole in the flat that will require a lot of weld to get to close up, just more work to get to a finished product. The holes are a mess on the flat they are completely the wrong size and even the location is off some. No weld kits
The SW5 flats: Much better in the mag well area but still not perfect the top is not stamped and is completely flat making it much more difficult to fold and maintain the dimensions of the rest of the items on the flat like the rails and side curves, because of the pressure required to force the metal to curve into the proper angles to allow the top circumference for the bold carrier to fit. Also the holes are not the right size for original HK weld kit, also missing the barrel pin holes, and the tabs on the bottom for positioning the trigger pack require a lot of adjustment to get to a usable length. The rear site base and sight tab look like they were cut apart from each other and just do not look right, there are holes to make the lining up easier for the weld kit but then you are either stuck with holes into your final gun or you have to spend the time to weld and sand the holes down to make them look right.
LSC flats: As close to an original I have seen, also all the hole line up perfectly on the flat once it is folded. The top of the flat is completely finished no second steps needed (so claws mounts can be used), it is pre-curved to make it very easy to center and also started the bend which makes it so that is much easy to bend into spec, because you are not fighting the metal as much. There is no cut out were the rails hit the curved part of the flat so their is some folding/ tearing of the metal in that location but the builders told me not to worry about it because it gets welded their anyways. Their weld kit is also really nice all machined and look amazing, except they go with the semi auto self just like the OEM ones so it is a little more work to install a paddle mag release. The most recommend by builders.
I did not buy an MKE flat because they are just too expensive and not worth the additional cost to me.
This is just what I have learned from talking to builders and from my personal experience. I think that is a good start on a full comparison.
If you want a list of manufacturers I spoke to just drop me a PM, do not want to post here with out there permission.
That's good information. I didn't have SW5 or RF5 flats to compare to, so this is good to know. I think the LSC copied the MKE flats, which besides SW flats were the only others available when they started their project.
LSC has even finished a few additional steps that aren't in the MKE flats, like the flattened rails, etc.
I hear one of the main concerns with the SW flat is the lack of top rib. This is why my statement about asking your builder for their opinion is very important. It's the skill of the builder and their confidence level of being able to complete a solid built, well looking, reliable gun.
If a builder told me they would go with an LSC over the SW purely on the crisp stamping outline, I'd buy that. There are things I like about the LSC flat over the SW and vise versa. I've handled the SW flats and they work. The above paragraph needs some clarification....
The SW flat has barrel pin holes already stamped. The holes do line up with the trunion.
The holes on the mag well for the mag catch and push button are the correct size.
The slot for the mag catch is already cut.
The bottom portion of the SW flat (tabs), where the trigger housing is the correct height.
The SW weld kit is not as nice as the LSC kit, for sure.
A factory German case deflector will line up with the holes stamped on the SW flat.
Some of the gripes about the SW has to do with the weld kits and not the actual flat.
If I were to use an SW flat as the base for my gun, I'd use a factory German case deflector or the deflector that comes in the SW kit. The SW case deflector does not have holes drilled into it. As for the rest of the weld kit parts (rear sight and sight tab for the claw mount) I'd use the LSC kit. The mag well sling attachment is pretty much the same.
As this comes to a full circle, the same issue pops back up...the top rib....SW flats have a top rib stamped when the flat is rolled into a receiver. This is not an issue because each flat whether it be an SW, ORF, MKE, or LSC has it's own pros and cons. It's the skill of the builder to make it work, function, and look nice.
Okay boys and girls, what you've been waiting for....pictures:
MKE flat:
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
LSC flat:
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
SW flat without top stamp rib, as it comes from TB or Adam Webber:
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
SW flat after top rib stamped in, the flat begins to curve and will roll correctly:
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
Yes, the SW flat will work very nicely with a top stamped rib prior to rolling. So if you factor in costs/budget, selected builder, expected performance, and appearance, there's no clear cut winner.
Note, I also have an ORF flat but did not snap pics of it. The ORF flat will actually roll nicely, but the stamping is not as crisp. There are no holes for the barrel pin. The stamped holes are the wrong size, but will give the builder a starting point for final drilling. The tabs on the bottom which sits on the trigger pack is too long. These tabs need to be machined, cut, filed, sanded, etc. for the trigger to seat properly.
As for .223 receiver, SW is the only choice, so you might as well stamp it!
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
By dirtyeight, shot with DSC-V1 at 2009-05-01
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